Nov. 29, 2021



Eudaimonia is a Greek word, literally translating to the state or condition of good spirit which is commonly translated as happiness or welfare. The closest English word is probably flourish; the word flourishing. Aristotle used it as a broad concept to describe the highest good humans could strive toward or having a life of flourishment. What does it mean to have a virtuous life? How does genius and creativity come into this topic?

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Eudaimonia is a Greek word, literally translating to the state or condition of good spirit which is commonly translated as happiness or welfare. The closest English word is probably flourish; the word flourishing. Aristotle used it as a broad concept to describe the highest good humans could strive toward or having a life of flourishment.
What does it mean to have a virtuous life? How does genius and creativity come into this topic?




[00:00:00] Fawn: Hi everybody. Hello? Eudaimonia it sounds like, let me say it again. Eudaimonia,

[00:00:09] Matt: but it's one word.

[00:00:10] Fawn: It's one word. Eudaimonia it sounds like you'd a man. You da man

[00:00:15] Matt: or the money

[00:00:16] Fawn: or, there's another pronunciation. Eudaimonia so we have another Greek word for you today, guys.

It's eudaimonia. And Aristotle is joining us today. Again, as much as we can channel Aristotle, our friend to the art of friendship. All right. Eudaimonia is a Greek word, literally translating to the state or condition of good spirit which is commonly translated as happiness or welfare. Okay. The closest English word is probably flourish; the word flourishing. Aristotle used it as a broad concept to describe the highest good humans could strive [00:01:00] toward or having a life of flourishment; a state of wellbeing is what it is.

An example of eudaimonia was like it was achieved through being virtuous; living a virtuous life,

[00:01:16] Matt: but isn't that bigger than that?

[00:01:18] Fawn: So let me just keep going and we can get into it. So virtue is moral excellence to allow something to act in harmony with its purpose. That's interesting. If you think about it with friendship, allowing something to act in harmony with its purpose. So don't put anything on someone don't put anything on the friendship, just allow it to see what its true purpose is.

Maybe this person is not your true friend. What is the purpose of that being in your life? Just look at it objectively. So anyway, let me go on. An example of something virtuous, like having a virtuous life would be an artist or in this case the definition I've [00:02:00] found was like, a virtuous carpenter.

Okay. In their trade virtue would be excellence in artistic eye having a steady hand, having patience. Working with creativity that is virtuous. That is having, a, eudaimonian life

[00:02:18] Matt: or perhaps eudemonias life.

[00:02:20] Fawn: Eudaimonias , so having a unit, you didn't, I don't know. I can't even pronounce it.

Having a, eudaiman life is one dedicated to developing elec L you don't, uh, you don't. Oh my God. You, they, men. No, I can't say it anymore. Uh, you Damon, you're thinking too much. Are you diamond? A eudaiman life is one dedicated to developing excellences of being human. So Aristotle would say this means having and working with the virtues, like courage, [00:03:00] wisdom, good humor, kindness, compassion, et cetera.

Okay. Some of, okay, so then this part it's so funny because people take Aristotle perhaps too, literally I think is what's happening here. But I was reading how people take, Aristotle's conclusions, to be really awful because he said he believed that ugliness and we talked about ugliness on another episode remember? But he believed that ugliness was a hindrance to developing practical social virtues, like friendship. Because nobody would be friends with an ugly person. So whoever, whoever, whoever read this, I think thought immediately you have to have a certain aesthetic, you have to be blonde and thin or whatever, whatever the way of looking beautiful is in our society, whatever is in [00:04:00] Vogue in that time period.

But what I think what I know he's talking about. You can't have friends of your ugly, ugly, in spirit. How many times do I tell this to the girls? You can meet someone like you think your true love, right? And they're so beautiful, handsome, whatever that in an instant goes away when they're acting ugly, when they're ugly on the inside.

But if you're beautiful on the inside, you're always beautiful in all ways. A person that acts ugly is ugly. Ugly uuuuuuuugleeeee

[00:04:36] Matt: right. So don't judge a book by its cover. And by the way, let's point out that a famous, another famous ancient Greek Socrates legendarily ugly physically. They will pull his nose.

I kid you not.

[00:04:51] Fawn: That doesn't mean they're ugly.

[00:04:52] Matt: He was described as legendarily ugly, as far as his physical appearance.

[00:04:59] Fawn: Poor [00:05:00] baby. That's terrible,

[00:05:02] Matt: but he's legendary.

[00:05:03] Fawn: So is that kind of like, um, uh, oh, I got I'm blanking on his name. Yeah. Cyrano de Bergerac, perhaps that's terrible, but like, yeah, ugliness gets in the way, but anyway, I think I'm veering away from you.

Did you? Oh my God. Here we go again. eudaimonia or eudaimonia. We were harping on really the recipe of it. Which would be to be true, to be good, to be beautiful. And now having discussed Aristotle and beauty, I think beautiful, we now can be on the same page with in this episode, as we talk about beauty, it's beauty as in spirit,


[00:05:50] Matt: It's not this, it's not the skin deep stuff,

[00:05:52] Fawn: It's funny because this whole. Eudaimonia came about because I was reading a book, which w came [00:06:00] recommended. And then I started reading it on my guys to my friends. I'm like, oh my God, this book is so good. They're like, yeah, we've known about this book for years.

[00:06:09] Matt: Don't you hate that? You think you come up with this really Primo, whatever.

[00:06:13] Fawn: Well, I didn't come up with it. A teacher, recommended it,

[00:06:16] Matt: but still it's like, it's like, mention it And they're like, yeah, yeah. I read that like four years ago.

[00:06:21] Fawn: Thanks. Yeah. Well, and then they have it around their house and apparently like KJ.

This is her gift to her friends every year. Like, she'll give this book as a gift to


[00:06:31] Matt: You need to get her gift list and like buy all those books by all the stuff on her. Like Oprah's list just by her.

[00:06:37] Fawn: We should have a KJ list of gifts. This book was recommended by a teacher and he was saying that he reads it every Christmas every year. And it's interesting because when I said, oh my God, Beth KJ, have you guys read that? You guys should read this book. It's great. And they're like, yeah, we have that book. And then immediately KJ, [00:07:00] snapshots, some shots of her coffee table, like in her living room. And she's like, see, and had all these tabs in it and all these notes.

She's like, yeah, no, I read this four times a year. Like why? So people read this over and over again and get to the point. All right. The book is called, first of all, it's called "Big Magic". And it's by Elizabeth Gilbert.

[00:07:20] Matt: Who is that?

[00:07:21] Fawn: You know, eat, pray, love. She wrote that. Okay. So she was talking about a genius.

She was talking about. The portion of the book, which brought about eudaimonia. She was talking about how it wasn't until the Renaissance that we took on the quality of genius as us. Like this person is a genius. But before that, it was thought of as a spirit, an entity that whispers to you that comes in and out.

It's not you. So it's a collaboration with you and this force. And so she started talking about in ancient Greek, the [00:08:00] highest degree of human happiness is eudaimonia, which basically means well Damon. And when I first read that, I'm like, is that a demons? Yes, it is it. What is Daymond?

[00:08:13] Matt: Well, it depends.

Context is all. Uh, Damons actually, I first found out about those way back programming they're in Unix. People create these things that just run in the


[00:08:25] Fawn: What is Unix? What are you talking about?

[00:08:27] Matt: Sorry. Unix gave birth to Lennox. It's not. Forgive me technical. It's an operating system like windows 10 or 11 and or a Mac OSX Unix.

So in college mainframe, Tran Unix, life was simple and now computers run Linux, which is kind of the same thing. But forgive me, it really isn't, but we're not going to get into that. But a Damon is a program that just runs in the background. He's just hanging out there and he does things for you. He's almost like a SERVANT.[00:09:00]

Which is interesting.

[00:09:01] Fawn: I'm going to read from this little paragraph of her book, she goes, those are the word. Uh, Damon is Greek. Um, the degree of human happiness is eudaimonia, which basically means well Daymond. And then she goes, that is nicely taken care of by some external divine creative spirit guide.

And she says modern commentators, perhaps uncomfortable with this sense of divine mystery, simply call it flow or being in the zone.

[00:09:32] Matt: Right.

[00:09:32] Fawn: Right. She goes on to say, but the Greeks and the Romans both believed in the idea of an external Damon of creativity. She talks about how they believed that a house was inhabited by an elf or a spirit. This is roughly translated by myself. Cause I don't want to totally just read from her book. Someone who helps you with your work, with your creativity, with your laborers, the Romans [00:10:00] had a specific term for that helpful elf, if you will, and they called it your GENIUS; you're guardian deity, the conduit of your inspiration. The Romans believed that when a person was gifted, they had a genius. They believed that they had a genius that you weren't a genius, that you had someone working with you; this genius.

[00:10:24] Matt: Which is interesting because the Greeks also give us the idea of the muse, right?

Exactly. Whispers in your whispers secrets in your ear, perhaps.

[00:10:33] Fawn: So she gets into the whole psychology of construction. This caught my eye, the subtle important distinction of being, versus having, of being versus having. And I think of friendship, the idea of being a friend versus having a friend, it's kind of the same "genius" concept. You are a friend and what is having a friend? You have to be the [00:11:00] friend. You can't just have a friend.

[00:11:03] Matt: You know what I mean? Of course it's a two-way street, but I also think about being a genius versus having genius.

[00:11:09] Fawn: Exactly, exactly.

[00:11:11] Matt: Your painting this really straight line for me right now.

[00:11:13] Fawn: Right. Okay. So having painted all of that, let's talk about eudaimonia or eudaimonia and Damon, and how that could be a good recipe for having really good relationships, having connections with people. It's about virtue, it's about the true, the good and the beautiful,

[00:11:34] Matt: right. Absolutely back to my man. Socrates, Socrates had a Damon. He used to describe as Damon and it would talk to him.

[00:11:43] Fawn: Really?

[00:11:44] Matt: Yeah. Seriously.

[00:11:45] Fawn: Okay. Tell me.

[00:11:45] Matt: Well, no, that's basically all I that's all I know about that. No, no, no, no. Um, honestly, I think that, that's what led him down his kind of oratory path.

It's almost like he would have conversations with th with the Damon. Supposedly [00:12:00] he could shred anybody, debating him, which is a scary thought, right? Cause he would carefully lay a trap for the other person very slowly by asking lots of questions. And he finally like tie them up in a place where they couldn't answer his question, with all the facts they had previously given him. So they'd have to run away and be upset.

[00:12:19] Fawn: Oh my God, I have a teacher right now, an amazing art teacher, Vanessa from storyteller academy. And she always says, she talks to her characters when she's drawing them. And she's like, what kind of hairstyle do you want today? What do you want to wear today?

What are you? You know, she talks about.

[00:12:38] Matt: Well, so it's a way of breathing more life and making these more real because they are, they start out as very one dimensional characters. It's only through time that they gain more dimensions. And the same thing happens with the people in your life to explain, well, you first meet somebody.

It's like, okay, let's pretend, you know, let's pretend I'm on the bus and I'm sitting now next to somebody [00:13:00] and I noticed that they have a, I don't know, whatever they're wearing a shirt from a sports team I'm fond of. So I engage them in a conversation. Now, all of a sudden they went from being just literally kind of a gray figure, just a person around me and they've now gained a dimension.

And then what happens if they're like, oh yeah, absolutely. I'm going to the game tonight. And you're like, oh, that's. And then maybe I have an extra ticket or who knows. And all of a sudden, now they start to gain more dimensions and then you learn more things about


[00:13:31] Fawn: So all this because of what they were wearing,

[00:13:33] Matt: all this because of one thing.

Uh, whatever that one thing is. Did they choose to react to me? Are they reading a given book? Are they looking at a given movie? Are they, you know, it's a question of who they are. And sometimes people are just nice, but there is no real connection, but you still, they still manage to become, gain more dimensions.

[00:13:54] Fawn: Right.

Having some kind of connection,

[00:13:56] Matt: right? Yeah. Like, um, yeah, one of the people on my team right now, [00:14:00] super nice guy. And we're, we're slowly starting to learn about each other. I really don't think we have anything in common and that's fine. So we're probably going to stay in kind of this weird acquaintance zone, but.

And your, your brow is ferlin a little bit to that, isn't it?

[00:14:15] Fawn: No, I was just thinking, could I truly get along with someone then I have absolutely nothing in common with, and I was first thinking. Yeah, because I would be interested in something I don't know. Or perhaps I would like to stretch myself.

Right. But then what if, what if, what if, what if that's why my brow was furled? Right. Because I'm like, well, what if they're an extreme political view for me right now. And I never thought I would be a political type person where meeting someone, their politics would be a deal breaker, a deal breaker for me.

But I have reached that point,

[00:14:54] Matt: right? No, I totally get it. Yeah, absolutely. Unfortunately there've been one or [00:15:00] two personalities in the field of music I listened to who have done some things that aren't. And it's like, will I ever listened to them again? I don't think so. But we'll see.

[00:15:10] Fawn: And yeah. And that's the, that's been the topic of discussion. What do you do when you have people in your life that are great geniuses, but then you find out, wow, these are some horrible people. If you think of artists, they've created masterpieces, great works of art, but then you find out that they did some horrible things.

Well, Do you hate their genius is their genius is not them. Do you hate their work and ban their work? Or do you just see them as separate and say, this is an awful person? How many artists are there out there that we have had to perhaps cancel, like throughout history was Dr. Seuss. One of them. I don't know.

I don't know, but like, I don't know [00:16:00] why Dr. Seuss just came to mind. I really don't know. Please forgive me. Let's scratch. Let's let's leave Dr. Seuss out of this, but like, when you hear a musician, like let's take Michael Jackson, right. People are banning his music. Like don't

listen to it.

[00:16:16] Matt: Well, there's, there's an uncomfortable narrative to Michael Jackson's

life now.

[00:16:20] Fawn: Yeah. But his genius is now guilty by association. So anyway, same thing, like, do I, can I be friends with someone that is so different? And so diametrically opposed to everything I believe in am I getting off track? No.

[00:16:35] Matt: Surely not. And you know, I have to say that I work with people with a challenging political beliefs. let's just say. But we do have something in common because the work we have in common and we can share the work and we can share the knowledge that we gain and we can share that kind of stuff. So we can still share. Am I planning on going over to so-and-so's house for barbecue? No, probably not, would I meet him for lunch.

Yeah, [00:17:00] probably would.

[00:17:00] Fawn: This would be a type one or a type two kind of a friend based on our understanding of the Nicomachean ethics. So we're not going to love them for everything that they are. We're not going to love this person just the way they are. Right. It's a superficial friend.

[00:17:16] Matt: , it's a give and take, I think relationship.

[00:17:18] Fawn: I don't think it's one that is your bosom buddy. You know?

[00:17:23] Matt: And there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

[00:17:26] Fawn: There's nothing wrong with it, but it's disappointing. Like, you know, like I've been saying, I've been going through that myself, even though I know this stuff and I find out, oh man, another one bites the dust. Here was a friend that I thought was my like, soulmate friend. And I'm like, oh man, they're really not. You know what I mean? They're like, They're in it for something else. And I was in it with a completely open heart, always there and then realizing this person is not reciprocating. deep down they're in it for [00:18:00] some other reason than the pure love of it.

That's it. I'm sorry, what I've been going through? I'm telling you it's hard. It's devastating.

[00:18:10] Matt: I totally get it. That's why I'm, I think I'm more measured and careful. And I just maintain a curiosity when I run into somebody who I don't have a lot of common with, it just sparks my curiosity, frankly, and it just, you know, I'll find those points of intersection and I'll see where we can communicate and where we can be happy.

And I know for sure, I'm going to learn a little, little sum sum from this person, and that makes me happy.

[00:18:34] Fawn: Yeah, well, you're thinking about it, whereas me, I'm just diving in, you know, and then I'm in the waters. I'm like, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? And it's hard to get out of it. Yes.

Right? Because you've invested your time, your energy, your spirit into it, and you don't want to be wrong. You don't want to be proven wrong. Like, oh, I thought this, this was this, but it's really not what I thought. [00:19:00] And it's hard to see the truth sometimes. It's painful.

[00:19:03] Matt: It is for sure.

But that's why I do like stupid things. Like if I notice that I'm the one who's always calling, then I'll stop and see what happens.

[00:19:11] Fawn: I know I noticed that, but even that is painful for me. You can let it go. Me it's been months and I'm like, oh, I really want to work on not calling this person.

You know, it's horrible. I

[00:19:24] Matt: get it. I totally get it.

[00:19:27] Fawn: But can we get back to eudaimonia? Yes. So living a virtuous life, like being of a virtuous type person, that's the true way to connect. So even if this person is not your true friend, right. And let's say someone acts ugly or is ugly like that. Right. You're not going to act like that.

Don't play that game. You're going to stay within your own virtue of doing things with excellence. Well, I would say you're going to have [00:20:00] a flourishing life.

[00:20:01] Matt: I would say I do these things. I'm not going to project that on someone else though. No,

[00:20:05] Fawn: I'm saying one word when I say you I'm sorry, one

[00:20:09] Matt: should or

[00:20:09] Fawn: could.

One, one should always have the should word is so bad, but okay. To be a virtue, just, just, I think the best way to live is to live with virtue. Which means to have a flourishing life. So you're still going to do things with excellence. You're still going to behave with excellence, whatever that excellence is for you.

And you need to stay with that as your center, as your center point and move with that. Does that make any sense? Why are you quiet?

[00:20:46] Matt: Well, I like being quiet. No. Totally. I totally agree with that. And it's about also moving forward, not only virtuously, but with integrity.

[00:20:56] Fawn: Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:57] Matt: And and not second [00:21:00] guessing.

I'm careful of my heart, so I go forward virtuously. When people come to me with a question, I don't make them feel small in any way. And we, we sort out the answers together and I'm very open when I'm coming to you for help saying these are the things I don't understand, or it was funny.

I was going through this this week. These are the things that make me uncomfortable with this code I just wrote, you know, let's talk about it. So I literally show off the warts first,

[00:21:26] Fawn: whereas I'm just thinking about it. Back in the day when we would have friends over, I would, you know, it was funny noticing people's reactions because we, we all, every family member from El to Allegra, to me, to you, we would what's happening with my voice.

I don't know. Oh my God, whoever stepped through that threshold we would do our very best to give them our best, whether it's [00:22:00] the best morsel food to the best place to sit in the house, the apartment, whatever in our home to like just giving them our best. And did you notice that some people were uncomfortable with that?

Because that's not how they lived, you know, like they were like, oh, why did you make all this food? Like, they felt guilty. Right, because that's not how they live and that should have been a good sign for me right there.

[00:22:27] Matt: Maybe

to me, it was always like, you know, if they were invited into our home, that's certainly, that's a more central area of the onion as it were as a PR uh, for my personality than just talking to somebody on the phone or meeting somebody out in, out in the ether, out in space somewhere.

[00:22:44] Fawn: It's interesting. As we're talking about this, I'm losing my voice,

but regardless of that, I'm still going to do my best. I'm still going to live with my own virtues of preparing the most beautiful meal I'm going to invest my time and [00:23:00] create a beautiful cake that requires a lot of investment.

I'm still going to do all these things because that's my virtue. That's my heart. And because I've been hurt or because other people are ugly, I'm not going to change those values. Right. And I think that's the key. And for me, I was still going to have an open heart and dive off the cliff into a relationship because that's, that's how I am.

I don't think I could guard my heart if I tried really, really hard and I have, but I ended up still like, Opening up a jacket, like a, like a flasher, like here I am, you know, in my full glory, you know, because I don't have time to play games. I'm like, this is me. I'm going to love you. And if you're going to be ugly, well, I guess I'm going to get burned, but I'm still gonna go with an open heart.

[00:23:59] Matt: So do you think I play [00:24:00] games?

[00:24:01] Fawn: No, I don't. I just think you're more. I don't know what it is. I don't know if its a female male thing. We've talked about this before on our other shows, but I don't know if it's a man woman thing, but I think you're more able to be more deciphering. I can't judge. But you're no, you're not, you're not, you're not playing games, Matt.

I know you're not playing games, but you're able to be more. What's the word for it? You can decipher by just looking at someone what the truth is. Whereas I want this beautiful fantasy world and I assume the best in everyone and you will just see everyone as they are. Whereas I see them in their highest capable realm spirituality.

[00:24:49] Matt: I totally get it. I also think it's because I'm remarkably good at compartmentalization though. So I'm very careful. I'm very careful at what I show as well, [00:25:00] and

[00:25:00] Fawn: that's why you're able to thrive in business. Whereas I, why did he look so unhappy? Oh my God. People went. Yeah. I folks, if you've heard other episodes, you know, I always get fired from jobs because I look unhappy.

You don't look happy, Fawn. And they'll say that over and over again, to push me out.

[00:25:19] Matt: And yet I get, when I quit, we had no idea. And it's because they're not paying attention by the way. Cause I always, I always leave hints. I always make sure that they understand and if they go back and really take a good, hard look, they can sort

it out.

[00:25:33] Fawn: Right. People don't listen. Remember when we would say we're moving, we're moving to Washington. People are like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when moving day came, and we would tell them every day, or every time we saw them. And thenthey saw us moving, they were so shocked. And so not only shocked, but they were offended.

We're like, dude, we've been telling you, well, you know, like people, because people don't take action on what [00:26:00] they say. What?

[00:26:00] Matt: And also though people believe that virtue, the virtuous life that they've chosen to lead is universal. And there are certain virtues, I think that are universal being flipping kind of people.

Uh, you know, certain there's certain, certain noughties out there, like, you know, somebody who's filled with rage and always like attacking people, not virtuous. So there are certain universal virtues, but people believe that exactly the way they live is the virtuous life. And it's. You know, you you'd have a hard time arguing that a monk high in the mountains of the Himalayas, isn't living a virtuous life, but that looks nothing like the life I'm living

[00:26:46] Fawn: Right. What is happening outside our window? They're so noisy out there.

[00:26:50] Matt: Some kind of a bike thing going on outside today, we live close to one of like two major roads in

[00:26:58] Fawn: our little, um, so [00:27:00] anyway, that's the noise outside guys. Sorry about that. But, so

we should do a whole show on virtue because that's a, that's a big subject right there. It is. Um, what are the true universal virtues though? Is it the three things. My honesty. Goodness. True, good and beauty. True. Good and beauty.

[00:27:24] Matt: I mean people, but you can argue for. When I used to play Ultima, which is a computer game.

I mean, they, they went through sacrifice justice valor, and there was like five others that they cared about, which were interesting. And definitely virtues. It's like, what's the greatest virtue and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. For those of you who haven't played Ultima four, the answer is infinity, but God knows why.

[00:27:49] Fawn: So can we, I feel like I want to make this short, you have anything else you want to Daymond? yet,

[00:27:55] Matt: please go. Oh my goodness. So not only was Socrates talked to by, by a [00:28:00] Damon, but, and now we're going to get into some, a little bit more kind of sensitive matter.

Cause I want to talk about Gurtis um, Faust, Dr. who sold his soul to the devil. All right. Do tell. This is what this is like medieval style Germanic, but basically this demon, not Damon demon whispers in his ear.

[00:28:25] Fawn: So do you think that's related a Damon and a demon?

[00:28:28] Matt: Well, Christians have, have this nasty habit of turning all the gods and spirits and whatever into devils

[00:28:35] Fawn: we're going to do.

I'm going to find out what the etymology of demon is is it's probably

[00:28:39] Matt: coming from, it was perilously close. Right. And it's very negative. And devil is certainly not the good thing

[00:28:46] Fawn: either. Oh my God. Until you look at a beautiful show, like Lucifer, oh my God. I never thought it was for the

[00:28:53] Matt: dabble.

Well, and there's there again is, is a challenge. Yeah, you can make some [00:29:00] interesting philosophical philosophic, arguments back and forth on that, but even

[00:29:05] Fawn: like

[00:29:05] Matt: the nature of good and the nature of evil.

[00:29:08] Fawn: Yeah. I mean, Lucifer up to my pocket. I'm sorry.

[00:29:10] Matt: Glad. Goodness.

Just it. But I told you, I told you, you talk about Lucifer, but anyways, so at the end of the book, uh, Faust he's he's in hell. He's F'd completely Dr. Faustus. He's like. Done, but in the process of his life, because he sells his soul to the adult devil really early, he goes through a humongous mischievous period where he just messes with people like he messes with the Pope seriously, Dang! And I'm I'm, you know, I'm not trying to paint a value judgment here.

I'm not trying to say what Faustus. Did Dr. Faust did was good, bad or indifferent. I don't remember. I just remember he messed with the Pope. Okay. But anyways, but he got wisdom [00:30:00] from Mephistopheles and more, I guess importantly, what he did before he died was he set up all of his descendants. He got a whole bunch of money and he set them up.

Like, what do you mean

[00:30:14] Fawn: to set him up in a bad way or in a good way? Rich. I

[00:30:16] Matt: see, you know, he, he took care of them. He did something that you might argue as virtuous. You argue is virtuous by setting them up, even though he damned himself to hell for eternity. Well,

[00:30:31] Fawn: being a virtue, the wondering story, being a virtue doesn't necessarily mean that it equates to success or happiness.

It means doing the right thing.

[00:30:40] Matt: And did he do right by his descendants?

[00:30:44] Fawn: Money is

[00:30:44] Matt: needed. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's, it's, it's challenging and it's tricky. So, you know, was he visited by, uh, by, you know, what the Greeks have called that, uh, being visited by a Damon? Cause I mean, you can certainly argue again that Socrates who talked about [00:31:00] his personal Damon who talked to him, landed him in a heap of trouble because of course we, you know, that story of Socrates and we know how he ended.

It's just tricky. It's just something to ponder and think, think over honestly, and try trying so hard, not to pass a value judgment on it, but it is interesting,

I'm fairly sure that took us way off topic. No,

[00:31:20] Fawn: it's not off topic. That was good.

[00:31:22] Matt: Anyways. Eudaimonia is, life is one where I think for me personally, I would think it starts really boiling into A) of course inner Popeye, because that's what everything boils into; really understanding and knowing yourself and then taking it to the next level and trying to understand that your, at least for me, my best self is that where I'm helping others, and part of a eudaimonic life is that feeling that you get from helping others, donating to charity is one of those like very clear-cut I'm helping others [00:32:00] without a thought, as far as what I'm going to get,

[00:32:03] Fawn: but see it. Yeah. But it's also without a thought when you're donating to charity. Not

[00:32:07] Matt: without a thought though, I'm saying it's what I've thought of what I

[00:32:10] Fawn: get out of it.

No, I know. I, I understand. But I feel like, like we heard someone talking about their idea of connection is cooking for someone. I'm talking about totally investing and sharing something, that is good and beautiful. That's the way to have true eudaimonia

[00:32:29] Matt: yes.

I would say on a, in front of me kind of a way, I was just trying to mention that we get that happy feeling from helping others, even when I might be so disconnected from them.

[00:32:43] Fawn: Isn't it interesting. Why do we feel so good when we help others? Isn't that really interesting to think about it?

Why? Because we're really helping ourselves too, but because we're all one, if you, sorry, I'm going to take it to my hippy-dippy side because we are all interconnected. We're all [00:33:00] one. There is no separation. So when you're helping you're creating that bond. The it's, uh, it's about the concentric intersecting circles of energy of love.

[00:33:14] Matt: I don't know, it feels like you're being too ironically, too logical about the whole thing. What it just feels good to do good.

[00:33:21] Fawn: I'm trying to understand where really, where does that good feeling come from? Like, why is that there?

[00:33:28] Matt: And I just described that as analysis paralysis folks. All right.

So it can just feel good to feel good.

[00:33:34] Fawn: Just feel good. All right.

[00:33:37] Matt: Take the hedonist approach once in a while. Just feels good.

[00:33:41] Fawn: Let's do it. All right. Let's just feel. Do it to feel good. There you go.

[00:33:46] Matt: Who cares? But watch your virtue folks.

[00:33:50] Fawn: All right. Well, we'll talk to you next time in just a few days. Thank you for listening.

We're trying to make the shows a little bit shorter. We're hoping you don't listen [00:34:00] to double speed. Like I listened to things at double speed, but you do. You're going to be in trouble

[00:34:05] Matt: right now.

[00:34:07] Fawn: You see, we can't even we have to learn from those. Auctioneer's how they talk really fast.

But anyway, thank you for listening guys. Please tell everyone about what we're doing here with the art of friendship. Go to our friendly, please subscribe, ask your friends to subscribe. What are you pointing to Matt?

[00:34:25] Matt: And you should probably mention that this book big magic is kind of a cool book.

I already did. I

[00:34:31] Fawn: used to say it again. Thank you, Elizabeth Gilbert. Thank you so much. Thank you for all the guidance and the magic

[00:34:41] Matt: is, uh, what would you say? Uh,

[00:34:45] Fawn: You a man and a woman. You dai monia you're a woman. . Thank you everybody. We'll talk to you soon. Be well, bye bye-bye.