Understanding what kindness actually is, as opposed to respect, means learning how we can use both in our relationships.
Understanding what kindness actually is, as opposed to respect, means learning how we can use both of these things. And when we can use both of these things in our relationships. The word respect comes from the middle English from Latin respectus which means to look at, to regard. from R E, which means back. And then to that, you add S P E C E R E, which means to look at, so to look back on.
The definition of respect is a relation or reference to a particular thing or a situation and an act of giving particular attention, consideration, like high or special regard, esteem, the quality or state of being esteemed; a positive feeling or action shown towards someone or something considered important or held in high esteem or regard. It conveys a sense of admiration for good or valuable qualities.
Is respect earned or given? Respect is earned, not given suggests that if you want to be respected, you cannot force people to respect you just because you want them to. We aren't obliged to love or respect anyone just because they exist. It's like, You have to go through a series of things to, in a way earn that respect. Whereas kindness is not about earning it. Sometimes you have to be kind to the most hideous person, the most hideous acting person because that's what they need, because we all know that hurt people hurt. People that are in pain want to inflict pain on others. That's all they know. And maybe that's their way of being understood and being heard; when you feel my pain is when you're gonna feel what I'm going through. You will understand me better. It's really messed up, but I think that is unfortunately the way of things in our society.
Let's really look at where it actually stems from this whole disrespect thing really starts the way we are raised as babies, the way that as soon as we're born, we have to be put into daycare the way that we just have to fend for ourselves the way we're told you're out by 18, 18, you're out, you better make your own money. You better be out of here. It's saying that you don't belong to the family, that you have to get the heck out. And I understand having a sense of responsibility and becoming independent, but that's a different issue from saying you need to get out.
It's disrespectful. And we do it with the elders too. We, we put them in daycare. They're no longer part of the family. They're no longer under the same roof for different reasons. One is, you know, because the, the respect from generation to generation is not really considered, and there's no kindness in there, but there's really no respect.
And so, yeah, even when we're not dealing with elders, we barely want to hang out during Thanksgiving. We can barely hang out at a kitchen table these days, because we are so split even more than ever before with our politics, with our right as human beings, as my right, as a woman, totally trampled on by your father.
It's just, there's no listening. There's no understanding. There is no compassion or empathy for something that you may not be experiencing in your own life. And so what I was trying to tell my friend was what gets me mad is these people who have no respect and have no, they have no empathy until they experience the pain for themselves. That's the only time that they may consider another point of view is when theirs their life is. So put on the extreme for them to fully be immersed in what they thought they were against for them to understand it. Whereas you have to realize you don't have to live a certain way to understand someone.
It takes empathy. It takes listening. It takes hearing the other person out. It takes you removing yourself from the conversation and just hearing someone or seeing someone truly for who they are without you, not you listening, but for, without them putting themselves on the person, trying to further explain that they are right. Because "My way is best."
There are four forms of respect:
Michael Moffa, wrote this explanation for recruiter.com.
1) TOLERANCE - putting up with what someone else wants, needs hopes for, or expects in the form of forbearance from actions against them.
2) ADMIRATION - expressed or felt esteem for and encouragement of another's traits, states, behaviors, et cetera. So you have to admire the person to respect them.
3) DEFERENCE- Submissive attitudes, behaviors, and expressions as indicators or acceptance of claimed or sought the superior status of another.
4) ACKNOWLEDGEMENT -recognition of the positive value of the existence of another or his or her endeavors, traits, aptitudes achievements, et cetera, with no overtones or reluctance of the sort that tolerance, quote unquote tolerance suggests a simple nod of like quote-unquote, hi, tip of the hat or vague smile can easily accomplish this.
The etymology of kindness, the word kindness harks back to the old English, kindness, which me, which meant nation.
The thing about kindness is that it's not about earning it. Sometimes you have to be kind to the most hideous person, the most hideous acting person because that's what they need because we all know that hurt people hurt. People that are in pain wanna inflict pain on others. That's all they know. And maybe that's their way of being understood and being heard; when you feel my pain is when you're gonna feel what I'm going through. You will understand me better. It's really messed up, but I think that is unfortunately the way of things in our society.
Society deserves you to be kind to the most hated person.
Respect vs Kindness - Transcript
[00:00:00] Fawn: Imagine a quiet, beautiful morning, the kind of morning where you step outside and you can taste the fragrance from the trees and the flowers you can taste the dew from all the greenery that may be around. And sometimes it's not around. Cause we live around a lot of concrete.
But there is that delicious scent in the air super early in the morning. That's when people are kinder. People are, everything is a little bit quiet and cheerful. The birds are chirping.
So yesterday 6:30 in the morning, I go outside with my half watermelon ready to compost it. I had eaten it. We had eaten it and I was actually really chipper. I was excited to go for a walk and to see the world outside.
And as soon as I had took the last steps down the stairs, I saw one of my enemies
[00:00:53] Matt: D'oh!
[00:00:54] Fawn: In instant, I went from Happy, like Fawn in the forest feel to, I think I said every horrible word you never wanna say about a person. It all came outta my mouth. Like I was whispering it. I was so angry. My whole chemistry changed. You know, just because we talk about the art of friendship doesn't mean I'm not human and that there are people out there I don't wanna see that used to be friends at some point. They disappointed, severely us, our family, they hurt us and that happens, your heart gets broken
[00:01:35] Matt: right
[00:01:35] Fawn: by people. So what I'm trying to say is today's episode is about respect and kindness. And I had a, literally, literally a. Four and a half conversation with one of our dear dear friends,
[00:01:47] Matt: four and a half hour conversation?
[00:01:49] Fawn: What'd I say?
[00:01:49] Matt: Four and a half
[00:01:50] Fawn: conversation,
four and a half hour conversation. because I had to explain that there is a difference between kindness and respect.
[00:02:00] Matt: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:02:00] Fawn: I had to, I had to prove it. They're like what? It's the same thing. I'm like, oh no, no,
no, it's not.
[00:02:06] Matt: No, no, no, absolutely not. There are certain, professions where.
I want professionalism and respect and I don't want kindness.
[00:02:15] Fawn: I'm gonna get into that. Bear with me because I'm going to get into the meaning of both, and then we're gonna start the conversation because it's really good. You know, it's like when a kid asks you, like, what is this? Or what's the meaning of this?
And you can't explain it because deep down you really aren't fully well versed in what it actually means. do you know what I'm saying?
[00:02:37] Matt: I think so.
[00:02:37] Fawn: Like Einstein said, you really don't know anything about a subject if you can't explain it to a child,
[00:02:43] Matt: is he the one who said that? Wow,
[00:02:44] Fawn: I think so.
[00:02:45] Matt: It's strong.
[00:02:46] Fawn: I don't know for a fact who said it, but it's true. right. So I'm like, you know what, so that, I think that's why it took four hours or, well, we discussed other things mm-hmm but I had to keep reframing it to try to get my intuitive feeling of what respect is versus what kindness is. So it leads back to, I mean, it really starts with what's been going on with me and people.
Um, people's apologies to me. I had in, in the space of like, in the span of one week, I had two older cocky, older, Caucasian men, probably Republican, totally leash out on. Is that the term leash out on me. They like vent. They like, for no reason, I was there punching back because I was, I mean, from my perspective, the only non-white person and, you know, they couldn't do that with anyone else.
Like I was the target that they felt like they couldn't misuse cuz it's acceptable. And just by my presence they realized it was wrong and they tried to apologize, but it was in the form of an apologia. Go back to our episode. Do we explain this. The episode is called "Apologia" which is, it's really not an apology.
It's a defense of why you said or did what you did. So you're not apologizing. You're reaffirming why you did what you did, but you know, it was wrong. Well, I don't know if Socrates thought it was wrong, but
[00:04:17] Matt: Socrates sure as heck didn't
[00:04:18] Fawn: I I know, but it's still like it's like you do something really messed up and your apology is:
I'm sorry you felt that way. That, that kind of thing. And then you further explain why you were in the right
[00:04:32] Matt: I, I just, my eyes are downcast and I'm feeling very quiet
[00:04:36] Fawn: Yeah, because this is our big fight between us as a couple. Like, this is how we fight all the time. It's because Matt doesn't apologize.
Apologize. It's an apologia. Anyway. I'm digressing. So what happened was I came down the stairs and I saw the enemy and in a split second, my entire chemistry changed and my entire outlook on the world changed. I went to the compost. I put the watermelon in there totally saying the most messed up words, imaginable things that I don't even like to describe other women with, like these words.
But I did cuz it felt good. I was that angry. Then you met me there cuz you were locking the door. So you, you were like a few seconds behind me. And so you didn't see who I saw.
[00:05:22] Matt: I did not.
[00:05:23] Fawn: So what happened was I was just standing in the parking lot and you're like, which way do you wanna walk? I'm like, I don't even know.
I don't even wanna do go anywhere. Like nothing looks good to me. And you pointed in that direction, I'm like, no, that's where she was going. And you said, well, how about over here? I'm like, no, basically you, you, you gave all the four directions.
[00:05:41] Matt: I was being very sweet. I thought.
[00:05:42] Fawn: Yes. You were always sweetened light.
[00:05:44] Matt: No, but in that moment I happened to have been
[00:05:48] Fawn: okay. So what happened was I went from feeling so excited about going out into the world to, I don't care. I don't wanna go out in it. I don't wanna be a part of this. nothing excites me. We almost got into a fight cuz we were like, well, which way do you wanna go?
I'm like leave me alone. I'm I'm not happy right now. Don't mess with me. And so I just started walking in one direction and you followed me. And then this new cat walked up to me. it's like, and this cat, and this is where the kindness comes in. This cat in a split second, took me from the most foul minded head space I was in to immediately: "oh, love you." the love came back in an instant because of the kindness that this cat was giving me. It was amazing. And I recognized the whole difference again, in, in the body chemistry and my thoughts. It changed in instant. So I hung out with the cat for a few seconds and then we left and then a dog came up to us, running up to us and it was so
funny and excitable and like funny. And so I started laughing and then I don't know, about 10 minutes later, we ran into a, a black feral cat in the woods and this cat was on the hunt, but this cat also came up to me and wanted me to pet it and everything I'm like, whoa. Again, kindness. It changed my entire world.
And so going from understanding what kindness actually is, as opposed to respect, I wanna get into respect and talk about what that means and what kindness means and talk about how we can use both of these things. And when we can use both of these things in our relationships. Here we go: respect
Comes from the middle English from Latin respectus and from the verb, I'm just gonna spell it. R E S P I C E R E, which means to look at, to regard from R E, which means back. And then to that, you add S P E C E R E, which means to look at, so to look back on, that is what respect actually means when you break it down.
So the definition of respect is a relation or reference to a particular thing or a situation.
And an act of giving particular attention, consideration, like high or special regard, esteem, the quality or state of being esteemed; a positive feeling or action shown towards someone or something considered important or held in high esteem or regard. It conveys a sense of admiration for good or valuable qualities.
So one of the questions we're gonna ask is respect earned or given?
That's one of the things we're gonna get into today
Respect is earned, not given suggests that if you wanna be respected, you cannot force people to respect you just because you want them to.
People who think that you cannot force people to respect you it's because they recognize they, they know that not everyone is born equal and they aren't obliged to love or respect anyone just because they exist. It's like, You have to go through a series of things to, in a way earn that respect.
Whereas kindness, I think it's not about earning it. Sometimes you have to be kind to the most hideous person, the most hideous acting person.
because that's what they need, because we all know that hurt people hurt. People that are in pain wanna inflict pain on others. That's all they know.
And maybe that's their way of being understood and being heard ;when you feel my pain is when you're gonna feel what I'm going through. You will understand me better. It's really messed up, but I think that is unfortunately the way of things in our society.
I was reading something and it broke it down to, four forms and confusions of respect.
If you look it up and you try to understand the meaning of it (the word, respect), you'll see that people break it down into three ways of respect, three or four usually.
But, so I picked one and I really liked, you know, I don't like the word tolerance.
[00:10:34] Matt: Yes,
[00:10:34] Fawn: because to me it's like, and this person totally described it the same way I do. Like it, it just makes me angry when someone is like, let's be tolerant of one another, because to me that implies that you have no respect for me that you're just going to tolerate me because you don't like the color of my skin, but you're gonna tolerate it.
And that just is ignorant to me that it doesn't work for me. I don't like that. I think they should change the name of museums or like whatever they're doing in society to make us love each other or understand one another. I don't think tolerance is the right word for it. It that's just my personal opinion.
But anyway, so here we go. This is written by. It's from recruiter.com is where I got this article from. I read a whole bunch of different people and what they think of respect and that whole thing. And this person, let me find their name. What is their name?
It's a writer for recruiter.com. His name is Michael Moffa. And this is what he had to say about respect. He started off talking about Rodney Dangerfield. He was a comedian, a standup comedian. I think it was in the eighties. And his catch phrase was "I can't get no respect" and everyone glomed onto that.
And it's interesting because a lot of people also felt the same way. So everyone would use that phrase. I can't get no respect.
[00:12:04] Matt: Right
[00:12:04] Fawn: It's interesting also Matt, that a lot of these articles had to do with the work situation, like with the corporate world, like that's where they broke down the whole idea of respect and the meaning of respect. I think what's missing is. First of all, it, it, that respect and especially the American culture, forgive me, but it's true.
We don't respect our kids. We don't respect each other. We don't respect the family. Really. Like, don't get mad at me, but it's true. If you're getting mad at me, I'm triggering you for a reason. Like there's a reason you're being triggered. I was talking to a friend for four and a half hours.
The conversation really started because I was so upset because your dad was so mean to me. And then, you know, somehow it was brought to his attention by some other family members that what he did was so wrong, but the way he apologized on my voicemail made me even more furious.
[00:13:05] Matt: And then he completely ignored
[00:13:06] Fawn: And then, oh, that's another thing that he ignored it. The, the next time we spoke, like, just because you say, oops, sorry. It doesn't mean you can never talk about it again because the person is still upset, especially because your apology may not have been, um, understood.
Or the apology was probably an apologia, which further infuriates the person. because you're not, you're not taking ownness of what you did. You're saying, I'm sorry you felt that way. Or" I'm sorry" but you really didn't get into what you did wrong.
You just wanna say, sorry. And get it over with and things go back to normal. But for me, I came from an abusive kind of family where they did the most messed up things. They rarely apologized. They just ignored it and life went on and then sure enough, that same behavior would take place. And after so many years, for me, most of my life, like I had to go to therapy and I, and I went to so many different therapists because they were all saying, you need to get outta this family.
This is not okay. Behavior. And because I come from the culture that I come from. Family's big. You just, you stay together. I had to completely cut myself off. I had to remove myself completely, even from the coolest relatives I had to just go off by myself and it's been a very lonely experience, but you can't, you can't just say we're family, we're blood.
So you're gonna have to put up with it. No. And, and that is where kindness comes in and that's where the whole respect thing comes in. And I wanna say, I'm glad that these articles are written about, respect in the workplace, but let's really look at where it actually stems from this whole disrespect thing really starts the way we are raised as babies, the way that as soon as we're born, we have to be put into daycare the way that we just have to fend for ourselves the way we're told you're out by 18, 18, you're out, you better make your own money. You better be out of here. It's saying that you don't belong to the family, that you have to get the heck out. And I understand having a sense of responsibility and becoming independent, but that's a different issue from saying you need to get out.
It's disrespectful. And we do it with the elders too. We, we put them in daycare. They're no longer part of the family. They're no longer under the same roof for different reasons. One is, you know, because the, the respect from generation to generation is not really considered, and there's no kindness in there, but there's really no respect.
And so, yeah, even when we're not dealing with elders, we barely wanna hang out during Thanksgiving. We can barely hang out at a kitchen table these days, because we are so split even more than ever before with our politics, with our right as human beings, as my right, as a woman, totally trampled on by your father.
It's just, there's no listening. There's no understanding. There is no compassion or empathy for something that you may not be experiencing in your own life. And so what I was trying to tell my friend was what gets me mad is these people who have no respect and have no, they have no empathy until they experience the pain
for themselves. That's the only time that they may consider another point of view is when theirs their life is. So put on the extreme for them to fully be immersed in what they thought they were against for them to understand it. Whereas you have to realize you don't have to live a certain way to understand someone.
It just takes empathy. It takes listening. It takes hearing the other person out. It takes you removing yourself from the conversation and just hearing someone or seeing someone truly for who they are without you, not you listening, but for, without them putting themselves on the person, trying to further explain that they are right.
Because "My way is best."
[00:17:37] Matt: right. Yeah, no, I totally got you in the case of my father. I think that he was attempting to take respect, not earning it, not being given it, but take it because he was theoretically trying to do us a favor. And we basically said, no, thank you very
[00:17:53] Fawn: much. No, we said no, thank you. After he behaved the way he did exactly, because we're like,
[00:17:58] Matt: you know what?
He was starting to think he could pull strings.
[00:18:00] Fawn: Mm.
[00:18:01] Matt: and, you know, was he being more honest at that moment?
[00:18:04] Fawn: Yeah.
[00:18:04] Matt: Is he always on guard against saying the wrong thing?
[00:18:08] Fawn: Yeah,
[00:18:08] Matt: maybe.
[00:18:09] Fawn: Yeah,
[00:18:10] Matt: but he was trying to take that respect, you know, you will listen to me because I'm now taking
[00:18:15] Fawn: And also it's the whole thing,
which doesn't work of like the generational thing.
Like no matter what you have to respect your elders, you have to respect your family no matter how they abuse. You need to respect that. And I don't agree with that. That, that is what perpetuates the whole disease in our society. No, someone has to stop and say no more of this. This behavior is not okay.
You need to change it. If you're not gonna change it, then I'm sorry. Then you can live like this on your own. There will have to be a split.
[00:18:49] Matt: Right. Right. And people like to make the excuse of, well, that's not how they were raised and how they grew up. They don't understand cetera. Cetera, cetera, a famous story in my family was one of her brothers.
Oh my God was dating a Catholic girl and we're Protestant or my mother was Protestant. And that was a scandal. Went to talk to the priest about it. And the priest said, at least he's going to church. Because the priest was somewhat enlightened, but , when do we stop making allowances for that's just the way things were back then or that's how they were raised or that's just how things are now.
[00:19:23] Fawn: is pure laziness saying, well, this is how I was raised. It's saying that you don't even wanna bother thinking or entertaining another person's point of view. You know, we had our girls totally open up to him, to your dad. You know, they're older now. So they're quiet about things as well. They should, because they can understand because people disrespect them like your, like your father did
[00:19:49] Matt: true.
[00:19:49] Fawn: He totally ignored them and said, it's just a phase which like deeply hurt them. So I get on the phone with him. I'm like, look, you said this, and you have to realize that it was a big deal for them to have this conversation with you, for them to explain their life, to you, to explain their preferences to you, to like explain their way of living and what they're going through.
And you totally dismissed it because you don't agree with them. He's like, okay, thanks for letting me know. I'll change that. Did he? No, he ignored it. Week after week after week.
[00:20:25] Matt: Well changing,
it means we're no longer
talking about it.
[00:20:28] Fawn: And then when he did talk about it, he said, uh, girls, I wanna apologize.
I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut from now on. It's like, wow. He, he didn't understand again that you, you being quiet about a social issue, that the girls are going through, you being quiet and saying, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut is not okay. It's saying I further don't wanna talk to you about it. I further don't wanna hear you.
[00:20:58] Matt: Right. Right. And you know what? I had this almost a very similar conversation with a friend of mine, actually. Her stepdaughter is going through stuff, going through a lot of things, but that's beside the point and the stepdaughter went to the parents and said, this is how I feel. This is who I am. And they completely shot her down.
And it's like, you know what, the quickest way to alienate somebody is to make them feel small. And it doesn't matter if they're family, it doesn't matter if they're coworker, it doesn't matter. And you make somebody feel small, they're gonna stop
[00:21:31] Fawn: talking and you make them feel small by the ways that you ignore something correct.
Or like they don't
[00:21:37] Matt: exist or you deny it or you say, oh, oh, uh, no, you're wrong or whatever it
[00:21:42] Fawn: is. So anyway, so going back to the definition of respect. There are four categories of respect. One is, and this was all across the board. The first one was tolerance. I like how Michael put it, he put it in quotes, putting up with and that's just so wrong.
So TOLERANCE: putting up with what someone else wants, needs hopes for, or expects in the form of forbearance from actions against them. Any idea what that means truly. Can you, can you redefine that?
[00:22:16] Matt: I, I wanna say that where tolerance came into it was going through the mindset of the way you were raised you can't change. So let's just pretend that's a true maximum. I don't believe it, but let's pretend that's true. Now. We want to, I integrate the schools. We wanna, oh my God. Mix the races in school. Oh. And we're gonna force bus or we're gonna do what it takes to make that happen. They used to describe it as the first generation will be, will, will force the first generation to be tolerant.
And then later on next generation of the generation after then we can start coming into harmony. But first with the, you know, it's like people have to see, um, Uhura on the bridge of The Enterprise and get comfortable with the fact that, oh my God, a black woman could be a, a fleet officer on Star Trek. Then the next generation can get more accepting and more accepting and more accepting mm-hmm
So that's where tolerance, I think really entered into like the vernacular of, and so it's like, you know what, you're gonna put up with it. You may not like it. You may not be happy about it, but you're gonna put up with it. See, it's
[00:23:24] Fawn: interesting the way. So later generation, it's very happy. It's very weird.
How you just read this, you know, you understood this definition totally different than I did. So again, it says tolerance putting up with putting up. What someone else wants, needs hopes for, or expects in the form of forbearance from actions against them. Right. So the way I thought about it was like your father, like for me to display respect, because he's an elder, I have to put up with him.
I don't wanna get him upset because he may have a heart attack or he may, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm like, oh, he's gonna get sick or he's just, you know, it's not good for him. Or is whatever blood pressure, I don't know, but out of tolerance, mm-hmm, out of the fact that he's your father. I have to respect him.
It doesn't always work. Right. I end up leaving the room a lot.
[00:24:21] Matt: Right. Which is weird because jumping the gun I'm I feel, and this is gonna sound weird because you're, and you're gonna disagree with me. I'm sure. But I don't really respect. But I feel the need to be
[00:24:38] Fawn: that's, that's why we're having this conversation.
That's we're having
[00:24:40] Matt: the conversation. You're jumping ahead. I'm jumping ahead. I know jumping, but like, you know, uh, you've gotta, you've gotta earn it, right.
[00:24:48] Fawn: Mm-hmm
[00:24:48] Matt: I have to give you my respect.
[00:24:50] Fawn: Right,
[00:24:50] Matt: and alls it takes, sometimes it takes one sentence to ruin it.
[00:24:54] Fawn: Mm-hmm
[00:24:56] Matt: and he's had many paragraphs with which to
[00:24:59] Fawn: Oh yeah. Chapters novels. Ah, all right. So the next one is admiration that comes in. So again, these are the four elements that go into respect. The second one is admiration: expressed or felt esteem for and encouragement of another's traits, states, behaviors, et cetera. So you have to admire the person to respect them.
I'm just gonna use your dad as an example. Mm-hmm please forgive me, Matt. No, no, no. And, and, and I, and forgive me out there, cuz I'm totally disrespecting our elders. I'm disrespecting Matt's dad, but you know, I am so angry right now with, with him as a, a, an archetype, right?
If you will, you know, the white man. Who is very conservative, who will hear nothing about you, does not wanna see other races and religions come into to his circle. Doesn't believe in human rights. He just sees his own rights. Right. And he's the one in the being wronged. Mm-hmm, not black people, you know, like it's, it's, it's outrageous and it, and he's so old and he's so frail and like sick.
So it's. You know, that's where the tolerance thing comes in. But, and so anyway, so admiration have to when, oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was gonna go to the next one.
[00:26:29] Matt: Okay, good. So I'm in a, I'm at quite a conundrum because like my favorite band first concert I ever went to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I was band Iron Maiden hay. Welcome to my heavy metal ness. The lead singer, Bruce Dickinson. I admired the be Jesus outta him. And now I'm conflicted. Now I admire, bejesus outta him, he he's a licensed pilot. He flies them around. He was on the British Olympic fencing team. He's a great singer.
Disagree with me as you will. So you admire him. I get it. Hold on. Bachelor's degree in history from university, cetera, cetera, et cetera, a lot of things to admire, but divorced his wife currently lives with someone who was described as a groupee. I'm conflicted. I don't know what to do with that. I don't, I don't admire that at all.
So I'm completely conflicted at first. I said, you know what? Forget it. But I, I can't
[00:27:22] Fawn: help it.
You can't admire every single aspect of every single person,
[00:27:27] Matt: but that's
kind of a big one to me.
[00:27:29] Fawn: Yeah. And yeah, you, you also went through this with Lance Armstrong. Oh my God. You made me read his book. Wow. I was like, I am not interested.
Read the book I'm like, fine. I'll read the book. I hate it when people make me read their books that they like, well, I
[00:27:42] Matt: made you read like two books and both of 'em are pretty messed up.
[00:27:45] Fawn: So I'm like, I didn't like Lance's Armstrong for whatever reason. I couldn't tell you why it was intuitive. Mm-hmm , I'm like, I don't care about this guy.
Right? Who is this fool? And you're like, you gotta read it. And then later on we realized, oh, this guy is a major cheater in many ways. Right. Right. And you lost all respect for him. Oh yeah. Big time because there was no more big time.
[00:28:07] Matt: There was no coming back for
[00:28:08] Fawn: him, but that's beside the point, the amount of things that you admired about him were way canceled out by the things that you did not admire about him.
Right. So there you go. So can I go to the next one? Yeah.
[00:28:19] Matt: you, no, go ahead. I'm I'm, I'm just conflicted on, on, you know, Iron Maiden,
[00:28:23] Fawn: so, all right. You can still admire the man for being a pilot and, and doing whatever golfing or is that Alice Cooper never that's Alice Cooper. Nevermind. All these heavy metal guys are
[00:28:35] Matt: he's hard rock.
Don't don't get
[00:28:37] Fawn: Okay. Okay. So we have tolerance, we have admiration. The next one is difference. Deference.
[00:28:44] Matt: Deference is
[00:28:45] Fawn: very different than difference. Okay. So the next one is deference guys. Okay. D E F E R E N C E. I don't even know what this means.
[00:28:55] Matt: It means that you're willing to quote unquote, defer your opinion to that person and, you know, in deference to you.
So I'm gonna ask you what you think and whatever you think. I'm probably gonna say that's what
[00:29:07] Fawn: Okay. So deference, this is what Michael said. Submissive attitudes, behaviors, expressions as indicators or acceptance of claimed or sought superior's status of another. I don't understand
[00:29:23] Matt: Yeah. See my meaning was so can I read that again? It feels like my meeting was so much more succinct. It's like if you're working with, in my world programming, okay. Let's talk programming for just a second. If I'm working with a 22 year old wonderkind for whatever, subject, whatever part of technology, then I'm gonna listen to what they have to say about whatever it is they're coding, even though I've been coding way longer. In some cases, God, it's getting, it's getting tricky now longer than they've been alive. But if they know more about a given subject, I will say, cool, let me just, let me just listen to what you have to say and, and I'll figure some stuff out. I'll ask you some questions.
I'm not gonna necessarily jump in and challenge you on anything because I don't know anything, you know, I have to actually, so I defer to your superior skill. And I say that sometimes I defer,
[00:30:17] Fawn: you know what, it's interesting when we came, when we moved. Okay. You all know that my, my family lived in the United States before I was born.
I ended up being born in the middle east. They went back and forth because whatever it was, it was hard to figure out, should we live here or should we live here? Mm-hmm . And so, but I remember there was so much admiration. There was so much deference. Is that how you say mm-hmm to the American man, the white American male?
That basically there was this, uh, what's the word I used again, it it's, um, an archetype of the great American hero, you know, the, the white Anglo Saxon, good looking man, American coming to save the day. And they are smart. They're beautiful. Handsome. They're strong. Like you name it. That's America.
And Matt, just hold on. Let me put my hair back. Matt, just let me smooth my hair. so I just remember like, wow. Like all American men are like this because that's what came from my family. That's what came from my dad. Like, you know, it's to be admired and respected. And I remember when I reached an age and I looked at American men, I'm like, this man is not fit this man is not knowledgeable.
This mat, this man not, oh, this man. Oh, Ooh. That's not what I meant. Mm-hmm no, no, no. This man is not intelligent. This man is not educated. This man is not understanding this man is not brave, like going down the list. I'm like, and then I started looking around mm-hmm I'm like, whoa, what happened? Has America always been this way?
This man is sloppy. This man is ignorant. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, there was so much deference given to what the United States was. Right. And I'm wondering. You know, I don't, I don't even have to wonder what other people think about America right now, but anyway, should I go to the next one?
Sure. So the last one is acknowledgement. So, so far the four traits of having respect, the four elements of respect are tolerance, admiration, deference, and the last one is acknowledgement. And so this is how Michael put it. He said recognition of the positive value of the existence of another or his or her endeavors, traits, aptitudes achievements, et cetera, with no overtones or reluctance of the sort that tolerance, quote unquote tolerance suggests a simple nod of like quote unquote, hi, tip of the hat or vague smile can easily accomplish this.
Of all the forms of respect, this is the most basic and deserved without having to be earned in the absence of evident Hitlerian negatives. What does Hitlerian negatives mean? Do you have any idea? I have to look that up.
[00:33:41] Matt: I'd have to, I'd have to see it is ITUR or something. Hitler, negatives.
Capital. Yeah. I don't know. Let's let's not dwell on that word. Okay. Let's just not do it. I don't. So
[00:33:50] Fawn: we're gonna ignore it. Yes we are. I'm assuming it has to do with Hitler. It's capitalized. I don't.
[00:33:56] Matt: Oh, that gets even weirder. Doesn't it?
[00:33:58] Fawn: I don't know. So what does that mean? Acknowledgement recognition of the positive value of the existence of another, right?
His or her endeavors. Aptitudes achievements, et cetera, with no overtones of reluctance. What do you think he's trying to say here?
[00:34:16] Matt: So because of tour de France is currently ongoing, I suppose. I'm riding my bike again. Yay. Cuz it's God, the weather's so pretty and wearing
[00:34:24] Fawn: your polka dotted Jersey wearing my
[00:34:27] Matt: polka dotted shirt.
I don't have a Jersey. I'm not nuts. Oh, sorry. When I go riding, it's not in licro spandex. It's in. I I wear sweatpants and a t-shirt. Okay. And I go out super early in the morning anyways. Um, and usually the first person to pass me is, has white hair. It's just kind of how it goes here. And you know, I think I draw that in.
Well, I call Colorado say, good
[00:34:48] Fawn: morning, can we go back? That's a Colorado thing. By the way, people are absurdly fit. Not everybody, but my God I was watching an Instagram thing, a. Someone was, uh, someone was at the red rocks. The red rocks are like these beautiful rock formations. And there are these bleachers.
It's a concert venue. It's a concert venue. It's out in nature, like in the mountains. Is it in the mountains? We've never been. So it's these massive red rocks. It's quite gorgeous. So there was this one person who was running backwards from the bleachers. You know how like you can skip the bleachers, like run down the bleachers.
This person was doing it backwards from up to all the way down. And the caption was something like Colorado people are weird like that. Well, if, if he slips that's, but he didn't, he didn't though, but I'm just saying they're absurdly fit. True. And like in Colorado here, we have like, All the most intense, um, races.
[00:35:54] Matt: And we have an Ironman here. We have triathletes training here. We have Olympians training. The one of the Olympic training centers is in Colorado Springs.
[00:36:01] Fawn: Yeah. People come here to train for major athletic feats, which let's let's tip our hat to Wendy McMillan, happy apple vegan on Instagram. That's why she moved here.
She's a major athlete. Don't mess with her. she's probably running and listening to this podcast right now. Hi, Wendy running miles 78 probably by now. Okay. I diagnose, can I go back
[00:36:26] Matt: to my actual story or? Yeah, go ahead anyways. And so I I've been making it a point now to say good morning, like, and, or like, I, I put two fingers to my helmet to salute and everything, and you know what?
I get ignored sometimes. Sometimes I'll hear it back. Depends on how early in the morning I am. Because typically nicer people are out earlier in the morning, but I'll tell you when I, I got, I got passed by the octogenarian, so I was like, good morning. I couldn't see. I couldn't feel he just booked super fit. Just gone.
I don't even know if he heard me. I don't, I don't know what the story was. but I'll tell you, I got, I got passed by . I got passed by a woman and her body chemistry as she went past me and I said, good morning, shifted. I could feel her soften isn't the right word, cuz she was going for it. You know, I, I wasn't going particularly fast because yeah, I'm not that fit, but I could feel that she appreciated me
saying something and not just ignoring her mm-hmm and, and the same thing happened again. I was, I was, I was finishing my ride, uh, going up main street and, you know, I saw just an older woman and I said, good morning. And she immediately did the same thing. and it was because maybe they didn't feel recognized or heard lately.
Mm-hmm I, I couldn't tell you what the deal was. You know, most people were just happy to say, Hey, good morning. Mm-hmm . But in those two instances happened to both be female. I could tell
[00:38:03] Fawn: meant something,
well, we especially need it now because our rights have been completely stripped and men are not saying a word.
Not a word. You're all, you all are, you are all quiet. And I, that's another thing that further enrages me anyway, but that's acknowledgeable. But see, that's how I felt when the cat came up to me. Right? Like it changed me in an instant because I felt that kindness, it was unexpected cuz you know, cats are aloof.
They don't give a, they don't care. But for this cat to sense that I needed kindness mm-hmm and came and offered so much kindness. My goodness, that that is kindness. That changes everything. So now I'm going to get to the definition of that. The etymology of kindness, the word kindness harcs back to the old English, kindness, which me, which meant nation.
We did a whole show on this. You. It means nation and has roots in the word. K I N kin as in one's family, race or relations, the word eventually evolved into our modern understanding of courtesy or noble deeds by the 14th century. There you have it, you can be kind without respecting the person.
Sometimes as I was trying to tell my friend last. In the wee hours in the morning, I'm like, she's like, why were you? So you were, why were, were you? We were in, it was the fight back and forth between the respect and the kindness. Mm-hmm I don't have to respect the person. I can still be kind. Sometimes the people that don't deserve your respect deserve your kindness.
They need it.
[00:39:53] Matt: I would say deserve your kindness, cuz I think that that's something that's should be either freely given or
not freely given.
[00:39:59] Fawn: All right. Let me put it this way. Society deserves you to be kind to the most hated person.
[00:40:08] Matt: Yeah, no that I can't argue with
[00:40:10] Fawn: Because let's face it. There's a reason why they're the way they. and clearly they know they have no respect and clearly deep down, they know why, but they're so comfortable in their situation that they've built for themselves and if they were to veer away from that, it would prove to themselves how wrong they are.
And that's painful to go away from. So to just offer some kindness doesn't mean you have to respect that person.
[00:40:39] Matt: True. Yeah. And the, the quick example I always come to is, um, unfortunately, yeah. And you're gonna disagree, but, um, when you're like serving the public it's I think, uh, it can be very important to be kind, even when you're dealing with so much like hate and anger.
Now that, of course there are limits, but
[00:40:58] Fawn: yeah,
I mean, this is a very deep subject. I'm gonna stop it here unless you wanna say something else, Matt, but I think it's good enough today to really look at the meaning of each word. And when you go about your day and you come across people that you don't like, and you will, especially nowadays think about the difference between kindness and respect
and which one is warranted, which one is needed and why, and that's where I'm gonna leave it today. I love you so much. Thank you for listening, France, Bonjour! Je t'aime I mean, France, thank you so much for listening the whole country. Like I'm blown away by you all. I love you. I wish I could live there. I wish our whole family could live there thank you for all of you friends around the world for listening. Email me your thoughts. Go to our website, our friendly world. What is it again? Our friendly world podcast, doc, go there and, uh, click on contact us. And that will directly email me and then I'll be talking about it with Matt and then Matt will talk to you too.
What are you looking like that for? Or is it our friendly world
[00:42:13] Matt: with fun and Matt or
[00:42:14] Fawn: no? Our, our podcast is called our friendly world with Fawn and Matt, what is wrong with us? Please? Edit. Have we had coffee? No, I'm not gonna edit it. It's crazy. It's what happens when you're stressed. But's gonna get confused as far as what the URL, right?
The URL is our friendly world. What is it?
[00:42:33] Matt: hold on. There's too many dot coms running around, babe. You're
[00:42:36] Fawn: gonna have to edit it. It's https://www.ourfriendlyworldpodcast.com/oh, okay.https://www.ourfriendlyworldpodcast.com/ Better, stronger together. Remember https://www.ourfriendlyworldpodcast.com/ we're here to transform our society into a friendlier one.
Please help us help us by joining our team, widening our circle, beyond the listening, let's form something together and let's create a kinder world. I'm looking forward to your emails. I'm serious. Okay. Talk to you soon in a few days. Love you be well, bye.
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