March 14, 2022

The Quiet Friend - Speaking Up in Defense of Others or Having Our heads in the Sand?

The Quiet Friend - Speaking Up in Defense of Others or Having Our heads in the Sand?

When is it OK to be quiet? When someone is hurting, is it OK to be quiet? When you know there is injustice, do you go about your day and just focus on yourself? If you lived in Europe before WWII and you noticed your friends and neighbors disappearing, would you go about your business and think, "Oh well, I am going to focus on my own breath and well-being and that is the outside world I have no control of"?????
In our previous episode, our guest kept saying that we are not responsible for the world and that we are only responsible for ourselves. I TOTALLY DISAGREE. Although I know it is essential for a person to be well centered and strong in order to help others, I feel that we are interconnected and that we are here in life, together, and even if it is through some unseen force, I am here to help and provide comfort and support for all of life.
Our talk today comes out of the last episode we did with Sharon  Caren. I got really quiet. for those of you who know me, well, I usually will just state my opinion, and stand up for stuff. But out of respect for Sharon, I got quiet because I also felt like maybe I was being misunderstood and as I was feeling more and more upset, I got quieter because I did not want to fight with our guest. I respect her and I think she is a wonderful healer. I just did not like that I got quiet and that I did not speak up (although I did try).
This episode is my chance to discuss the ramifications of quiet as well as the good ways of quiet as we use the beautiful children's picture book by Deborah Underwood  (Author), Renata Liwska (Illustrator), to steer our conversation about this topic. I introduce you to The Quiet Friend". Please email me and let me know your point of view.

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When is it OK to be quiet? When someone is hurting, is it OK to be quiet? When you know there is injustice, do you go about your day and just focus on yourself? If you lived in Europe before WWII and you noticed your friends and neighbors disappearing, would you go about your business and think, "Oh well, I am going to focus on my own breath and well-being and that is the outside world I have no control of"?????

In our previous episode, our guest kept saying that we are not responsible for the world and that we are only responsible for ourselves. I TOTALLY DISAGREE. Although I know it is essential for a person to be well centered and strong in order to help others, I feel that we are interconnected and that we are here in life, together, and even if it is through some unseen force, I am here to help and provide comfort and support for all of life.

Our talk today comes out of the last episode we did with Sharon  Caren. I got really quiet. for those of you who know me, well, I usually will just state my opinion, and stand up for stuff. But out of respect for Sharon, I got quiet because I also felt like maybe I was being misunderstood and as I was feeling more and more upset, I got quieter because I did not want to fight with our guest. I respect her and I think she is a wonderful healer. I just did not like that I got quiet and that I did not speak up (although I did try).

This episode is my chance to discuss the ramifications of quiet as well as the good ways of quiet as we use the beautiful children's picture book by Deborah Underwood  (Author), Renata Liwska (Illustrator), to steer our conversation about this topic. I introduce you to The Quiet Friend". Please email me and let me know your point of view.




[00:00:00] Matt: It was running the whole time, this little stopwatch, that we keep track of how long the show runs. And I had it on yesterday cause I was on the exercise bike and but it was running. And so when I took a look at it this morning, it was still running.

And so when I actually hit stop and then restart in my head, I hear a little voice going: "oh man!" so like the little, the little man in the computer thought he was doing something super cool and useful going, oh my God, I can't believe the stop-watch is running this long and this long and this long and getting more and more excited.

And then he finds out that I, the quote-unquote user just boom, boom. And he realized everything was pointless. And so he's like, oh God,

[00:00:39] Fawn: Poor guy.

[00:00:40] Matt: I

[00:00:40] Fawn: know. See that's adorable. I don't

[00:00:45] Matt: like being

[00:00:45] Fawn: adorable. There was a little person in there, like no, the little person in their hip, and now I'm seeing the little person in there is adorable, like running, keeping your time for you.

Exactly. And you so nonchalantly. I don't need that anymore. See, that's how I thought about the paperclip guy. Do you remember the pay-per-click guy?

[00:01:08] Matt: He might be coming back.

[00:01:09] Fawn: Clippies coming, but I loved Clippy.

[00:01:12] Matt: I didn't like Clippy, but there was this genie that I saw once in a conference and the genie would like do magical things for you.

[00:01:20] Fawn: I love that.

[00:01:21] Matt: I prefer that to Clippy, a paperclips.

[00:01:24] Fawn: Yeah. I love the paperclip. It helped you with word documents. If it sensed that you needed some help, this paperclip with big eyes would show up with the eyebrows, like filled with expression. It would show up and help you.

Like, do you need my help? And I always needed Clippy's help. And because I didn't understand how to do any function. Right. Like everything was a fight that when Clippy showed up and it calmed me down and I almost would like be weepy, like, thank you, Clippy. Thank you, Mr. Paperclip.

So it was this little paperclip with arms and legs and big eyes. It was so adorable. The

[00:02:04] Matt: first time I saw him click him away and say, never bring him back.

[00:02:09] Fawn: So rude! Poor Clippy, I love Clippy. And then they got rid of him. I guess everyone felt like you did well. That's like the shows that I love out there.

Any show I love gets canceled,

[00:02:21] Matt: quote, unquote, snarky and smart and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's very easy to cast something down. It's hard to raise something up.

[00:02:30] Fawn: So check us out. We've already digressed from the show. We haven't even started. Good morning, everybody. Good evening. Good afternoon. Hi everybody. Welcome to our friendly world.

This show today. Our talk today, it comes out of the last episode we did with Sharon Sharon Caren. I got really quiet. for those of you who know me, well, I usually will just, I have a foul mouth and I'll, I'll, uh, I'll state my opinion, you know, and I'll fight for stuff. Right. But out of respect for Sharon, I got quiet because I also felt like maybe I was being misunderstood .

And it was going to turn into a fight. I felt like, because I don't know, there were so many emotions there. So doing that and by the way, I edited it a lot. Sorry guys. I usually don't. I usually leave everything in and I make sure that if there are some distracting sounds in the background, I get rid of those, you know what I mean?

But, and then I have to edit to make sure that transcripts are somewhat decent. So if someone is hard of hearing, they can actually read what was being said. That's my editing process that takes forever. But in this case, I actually took out a chunk of stuff that was said.

So I took it out because I just thought if someone comes in, who's never heard our show before. It was not, it was not okay . Does that make sense? Do you agree? I mean, you have not heard the final, final edit yet, this led us into a lot of conversations this week with friends, because I was feeling so distraught over

should I edit? Should I even not even run the episode? What should I do? Am I being disrespectful to Sharon? I feel like I'm being disrespectful to humanity for not speaking. And the whole thing came out of this concept and this concept being that it doesn't matter what's happening in the world. You're just responsible for yourself.

You need to center and be okay within yourself. Don't worry about anything on the outside world. I highly disagree with this. I understand that you have to be centered first. I understand you have to be healthy of mind, body and spirit before you can truly help anyone else. I'm going beyond that. I'm not living there guys.

I am worldcentric in my, my desire. I am here because we're all interconnected. We are interconnected. So why are you just going to say, I'm just going to take care of myself and my own vibration. No, I am here to help. I am here embracing all of us as one.

Your body is my body, and there was such a disagreement on the episode and it wasn't going to go anywhere if I argued. So I just got quiet. Because I didn't want to argue. And also because I don't, I didn't want to be disrespectful. And I felt like, you know, me, Matt, like I don't fight well, I'm like a Chewbacca.

I am, I don't know how to debate very well. You're a great debater. I can not do that. I will turn into a maniac that will want to break things. So while this happened, I'm trying to calmly understand how to maneuver this thing. How do I maneuver? How do you talk to a friend that is not even a hearing what you're saying, assuming that you're some dumb ass, please forgive me.

If you have kids, Martine makes sure the kids are out of the room. I may curse today. I may. I'm sorry. I already said one bad word. I apologize. But do you know what I mean? Like, so I forgot what I was saying. What was, I think, how do you. I just, how do you deal with someone that thinks that you're ignorant, that you don't know what the hell they're talking about?

And in fact, you very well know what they're talking about, and you're trying to explain your view. I got quiet. I ended up talking to some friends trying to understand Sharon's perspective. How can we have a conversation.

And am I hallucinating? Like, did she think this of me? Or was she just trying to explain this is her work? And she just wants to stick in a very one dimensional way to what she always talks about.

Things that need to be discussed in our society right now. Right.

[00:06:59] Matt: Right. But these things are uncomfortable to discuss. And you know, were you and Sharon in a place where you had gotten to that level of depth, were you past the acquaintance aspects of friendship and had you actually started getting into all that kind of stuff?

[00:07:16] Fawn: We're not close friends. We just met recently so I don't know.

[00:07:20] Matt: And there's, there's also a presumption, I think in society in general, some cultures more so than others, but the older you are, the wiser, you automatically become.

Which is a fallacy,

[00:07:32] Fawn: That is so not true, yeah, you're right. It's a fallacy.

[00:07:35] Matt: They talk well, I've talked and people talk, but in certainly in my profession, it's like, you can have your first year, five years in a row because you're learning all brand new stuff, all new terminology, all new philosophies, everything. And so, you can actually stay in that beginner's, skill, not a beginner mindset because a beginner mindset is important, but a beginner skillset for a long time in your career, depending on, the paths you take.

And I think that this happens with people also in general. It's like, if you're never challenged, you don't


[00:08:07] Fawn: Remember that. So you're are you, I'm sorry. I'm spacing out. I think I listened to 50% of what you just said, because I'm still so emotional about what happened in that conversation.

So please forgive me. So I'm just going to equate it to something, but I think I only heard 50% of what you just said. So here's the thing, it's kind of like what they taught in martial arts, that when you become a master black belt, you go back to white belt. So you're always a beginner, right?

[00:08:36] Matt: There's beginners.

And then there's beginners. Yes.

[00:08:38] Fawn: So the way I've always operated is going from a state where someone , would think if he didn't know me would think I was ignorant. If you didn't know me would think that I was so innocent, you know, like, I don't know what I'm talking about, or I don't know this subject where in fact I have studied it, but it's and it's in everything

you know, like it's in baking a pie with a friend who has never seen you bake a pie and doesn't know that, Hey, um, I have actually worked as a professional pastry chef. Right. And then you invite them over to make pie and they think you've never made pie, but you haven't said, Hey, look, I'm actually a professional, but I just stood there and go, okay, what, what's the next step?

What's the next step? And they treated me like, wow, you don't know how to bake, you know, and many years later still thinking that they taught me how to bake, but I'm not going to say you didn't teach me how to bake. Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:09:38] Matt: It's again, it's a beginner mindset. It's like, okay. I've always approached the problem from way over here on the left.

And this time I'm going to approach the problem all the way over here on the right. And see if I end up in a better place or worst place or just, I get better understanding of what's happened.

[00:09:56] Fawn: What are you saying? I can't concentrate today. What are you saying?

[00:09:59] Matt: Well, okay. So you know exactly how you would make a pie, right?

And the pie turns out, looking exactly the way you expect it to. Case in point. When my mom bakes pie, an apple pie, the crust is a big dome over this thinner layer of apples because she doesn't pre cook the apples. So the apples baked down inside the crust and the crust hardens. Whereas normally when a person bakes a pie, that crust is right on top of the


[00:10:30] Fawn: Well, it's not,

[00:10:31] Matt: well, you're still making a pie, you're still making the pie. But if you went through and, and were instructed by say my mom, you would be like, just because you wanted to learn a different way to make a pie.

[00:10:43] Fawn: Yeah. But you're like, you're diverging from what I'm saying, what I'm saying is the person treats you like an imbecile because they think that you don't know how to bake a pie.

And they, they Lord that over you. Like they are the master and you're nothing. That's what I'm saying. And that w that is one of my deal breakers is if someone cannot see the depth of each human being the depth of me and in our friendship, it's a deal breaker. That's one of the things that starts crumbling in our friendship, that if they keep that up, and assume that about me. I'm assuming they, then I assume that that's how superficial they are, that they're not really seeing. I'm like, I can't have that kind of person in my tight inner circle because they're not seeing, they're not listening. They're not hearing, they're not paying attention. You know what I'm saying?

That's what I'm saying. I don't want to get into the crust and the dome and all that, because really today we're talking about the quiet friend and, and of course this came from the last episode, right. And I've always said, quiet is there's good and bad to quiet. There's very dangerous, quiet. And there's good quiet. And of course when Sharon was talking, I wanted to say, I wanted to bring up all these instances in history and modern day of why we shouldn't be saying, I'm just going to stick to my own vibration. I'm just going to take care of myself and the world; I can't change the world. I so disagree with that. I got really upset.

And so I got quiet and it was the bad kind of quiet. Right. And you know, me, Matt, when I get quiet, you better watch out. I'm not saying this against Sharon. I'm just saying that there are different forms of quiet for me. I'm a big meditator. So I am quiet, but best believe if there's a, there's a situation where there's a fight, let's say an argument and I get quiet,

it's not good. So as I was saying, what I wanted to bring up with Sharon was the cases in history, for example, talking about all the different genocides that have occurred on the planet with so many different cultures.

So you're going to be quiet about that. So there are people being killed right next door to you being plucked away and made to disappear. And you're just going to go, ah, I'm just going to focus on myself. What no! I wanted to get into these aspects. And because I'm so angry, I'm going to bring in a children's picture book into our conversation today, because I don't want to talk about, I don't want to bring in the genocide.

I don't want to bring in all the horrible atrocities that have happened to say, look, this is my point. Okay. Let's because we all know we're we're past that. So I'm just going to go straight to the point. And I'm going to use "The Quiet Book" as our example today.

Do you know that book as a children's picture book. I love this book so much. I bought two copies. We have a beautiful library of children's picture books. And as I was buying. For Elle and Allegra when they were that age, right. You're

[00:13:57] Matt: buying them for Elle and Allegra.

[00:13:58] Fawn: The truth is I was buying them for myself and I'm still buying them.

of all the books that I read, they're the ones I turned to for advice. Children's picture books have the most beautiful messages in them. The quiet book by Deborah Underwood, this book, the illustrations are beautiful illustrated by Renata Lisky L I w S K a what? A beautiful book. So I'm going to go through this book.

We're going to go through the examples of quiet, talk about them a little bit, and then after that we're getting into good, quiet and bad. Quiet. Okay. Okay.

The book opens up: the first one awake quiet. You know, like when you wake up to a, an epiphany, when you wake up in the morning or you're the first person, perhaps in your group to have a realization that this is wrong, or this is right, but it's, it's a new thought form.

All of a sudden, a different perspective that quiet,

[00:15:02] Matt: I woke up actually this morning with a full moon beaming on me. So that was,

[00:15:08] Fawn: I was there and I asked you, are we going to go insane? Like, isn't there, isn't there a thing that says folklore

[00:15:13] Matt: that says, if you sleep under a full moon, you will go crazy. But yeah.


[00:15:19] Fawn: there's the jelly side down quiet.

[00:15:21] Matt: Well, that's

my poor little guy inside the device when I hit reset on the stopwatch.

[00:15:27] Fawn: I mean, oh man, when, when, when something happens and you're like, oh man, but it's not just the oh man, not only did your sandwich fall down, but the jelly side down fell down. So not only do you have to pick up the sandwich and you don't get to eat that sandwich anymore because it's dirty now, but you have to clean up the floor several times because it is so sticky and gooey.

So there goes another 20 minutes right there and you're still hungry; the jelly side down quiet.

Don't scare the robyn quiet. Remember? We lived on Bainbridge island for awhile. We had a house there. Remember when we would walk out and all of a sudden you'd see something. And then something was this beautiful deer.

You're both frozen, just staring at each other and you don't like, I didn't want to move because I didn't want to scare the deer. I wanted the deer to stay. Right. And the deer probably thought, oh my God, this person could have killed them. Right. But that quiet, that exists while you're like staring at each other.

[00:16:35] Matt: Yeah. For me, it's slightly different because I remember I was at a park with my buddy Mario and would probably throw on her Frisbee. I don't remember. But all of a sudden this squirrel came running past, hold on. This is where it gets a little sad. His poor little head was in a chip bag and he couldn't get it out.

And he was freaking out because he was hearing all this craziness. And so we had to be so quiet and I tried to grab that bag and I couldn't do it because I just wasn't fast enough. But Mario did it. So that was really flipping cool. It

[00:17:06] Fawn: good of Mario.

Others telling us secret quiet. No good.

[00:17:13] Matt: Secrets are

double-edged swords

sometimes there are good secrets.

[00:17:16] Fawn: So this is the, this is telling, hold on. This is telling a secret quiet. So you're whispering, right? Right. If you go either a good or bad, I mean, that's for the followup conversation, but I was teaching Allegra some math. Right. And it was hard. There were tears that day, right? You had a tantrum.

[00:17:38] Matt: Yes, I did.

[00:17:39] Fawn: Allegra was crying. Then I had a tantrum towards you. Like, what are you doing? Can't get upset. She doesn't understand it. So Allegra and I went over, so this is our little secret. We were going through the math book. And it was hard, but we were, I was breaking it down. The way I teach is very rogue, by the way, thank God for homeschooling because I would get fired if I was a regular teacher in school.

So I whispered in her ear a secret about math, and I said, math is your bitch. And I whispered that in her ear, she started laughing. But that's our little secret, like a whisper things like that

[00:18:19] Matt: now to be fair. I also spent time with her that day on math. I know I had a good time doing it.

[00:18:24] Fawn: Okay. But like everybody had to calm down


[00:18:26] Matt: I did have a tantrum first, but anyway, I did.

[00:18:29] Fawn: All right, next next

coloring in the lines quiet when you're trying to just figure something out and you know how to do it, but you're just doing your work. I love that quiet.

[00:18:41] Matt: Well, yeah, when you're focused on a task and you know, you know that task and there's no real question about that task. So you just go for it.

[00:18:50] Fawn: Thinking of the reason you were drawing on the wall quiet. Ooh. When you've done something


[00:18:58] Matt: self introspection, like when you do something self-destructive for sure was like, why did I do that?

[00:19:05] Fawn: I haven't had that kind of thought in a while.

[00:19:08] Matt: Well, no, I remember that

[00:19:10] Fawn: knock on wood.

[00:19:11] Matt: When I was, when I was really little, my parents had these wooden chairs or rather they were upholstered, but they had wood on the sides.

And one day, I don't know why I grabbed a paperclip and I just started gouging the side of it. And it was like, I think it was, it was somewhere in close to my space and not around their space, but then later they brought the chairs down. And every time I saw what I had done, I was like, oh man, I think I got yelled at, but it wasn't, it wasn't good enough because I still felt guilty.

[00:19:43] Fawn: Okay. Hide and seek quiet when you know, you're both playing the game and it's like, you know, that

[00:19:54] Matt: kind of quiet going to hold someone's hand in the movie theater, like yeah. Nevermind.

[00:20:01] Fawn: Last one to get picked up from school quiet. Oh my God. That's me. And not just about, this is not about picking, getting, did you, did I, did you want to say something else about the last quiet?

Why are you looking like that? Because it's a sad, quiet. Well,

[00:20:17] Matt: it's like everybody, else's like having fun like la la la la and then one by one, they

disappear and then

[00:20:23] Fawn: yeah, but the thing is, this is what I was experiencing this week was the last one being picked, quiet. Like everybody else's career has become successful and here I am, I'm still sitting here working, working, working, praying, praying, praying, hustling, hustling, hustling, and you know, it's like being the last one, picked up from school, quiet and you feel like you're the only one left. Everything seems to be a struggle.

I have to keep reminding myself of all the wins, you know, of all the gifts, but still feeling like, oh, I'm the last one left,

[00:21:00] Matt: right? I was never the last picked up, but in college, like the finals week was Monday to Friday. No big deal. On Monday, a certain percentage of people would disappear from school because they were done on Tuesday, another percentage would disappear. And so slowly but surely the school would empty out. And I remember once or twice, I was there on a Thursday and Friday, and it just felt like no one was there.

[00:21:26] Fawn: Yeah. It's like, nowadays let's bring this back to present time. What are you feeling present time each quiet that I'm going to bring up from Debra Underwood's book.

Let's stick with modern day. So when you're listening to these, just think about what's happening now in that sense of quiet. Acknowledge what you're feeling. So like I'm feeling left behind with career and everyone else seems to be totally soaring, right?

So that was getting picked up from school quiet.

Swimming, underwater. Quiet I love that. Oh my God. I haven't been swimming lately. So, well, just think about the feeling. Think about the feeling of swimming under water. You have entered another realm, another world, and everything is slower. Everything sounds different. It's still quiet at first. But then in that quiet, you start to notice all these other sounds that you would never experience outside of the water. It's beautiful. Everything is in slow motion. You can slow life down, but then you realize, wow, that's life under here all the time.

And you can access it anytime, you wish.

Should I go on? Yeah. Pretending you're invisible, quiet. Let me tell you I've done this so many times that it was on auto mode. And then one day I was like, why does everyone ignore me? I stand in line. People constantly cut in front of me. Like they don't even realize I'm standing there.

And I realized, oh my God, I practiced the art of being invisible in crowds. Like, so I wouldn't bring attention to myself right, for so long that I forgot to take that program off of myself. And I had to revisit that and go, okay, I want to be noticed now.

[00:23:09] Matt: Well, yeah, there are two ways that people practice being invisible.

One is blending into their surroundings and the other is being invisible, being truly invisible. So if had you chosen to blend into your surroundings, which I think for you is difficult

[00:23:23] Fawn: impossible,

[00:23:24] Matt: then people would have still noticed you on some level, they would have still registered your existence, but you were so focused on people not seeing you.


[00:23:33] Fawn: Lollipop, quiet. Ah, I would say tiramisu. Quiet. Oh my gosh. When you something that's so delicious when you're, it's really interesting. I'm sorry. I'm cutting you off. Hold on to your thought, but like sitting at a table and usually there's loud ruckus conversation, but when everyone's eating, that's when, you know, everyone needs to eat, like everyone was hungry and it's kind of sweet.

Like it's sweet when, especially if you're the one who, who has made the delicacy, the meal, and all you hear is quiet nourishment is a special kind of satisfying, appealing. What were you going to

[00:24:10] Matt: say? Can I talk about, for me not lollipop, it's more about ice cream bar, quiet, but. Where you're just so focused on and there is a time element to it because obviously your ice cream will melt and get all all over you.


[00:24:24] Fawn: there's that stress of, I got to enjoy this really quick. There's no stress, baby. Oh, there's stress for me. Like I want to make it less. I want to make it last, but I don't want to, I don't want to quickly like, cause it's dripping

okay. First look at your new hairstyle, quiet first look.

[00:24:47] Matt: Okay. So I have long hair. I've had long hair forever, but once upon a time, about six years ago, I shaved my head bald.

[00:24:56] Fawn: That was a little tough. That was tough on all of us. I know. Yeah.

[00:25:00] Matt: That was a little tough to look at. Take in. Right. But anyways, as long again, so.

[00:25:07] Fawn: Um, but yeah, that, that incident where you're, you just feel remorse or just upset or, or

[00:25:15] Matt: you're just coming to grips with how you look, because you can just look completely different

[00:25:19] Fawn: or you can say in that quiet, like, is this really me?

Wow. It's beautiful. Right? Exactly. It could go either way. It could go either way.

Sleeping sister quiet. Okay. Let's I mean, we don't, we don't, we don't have to take these literally like sleeping sister, quiet. Yeah. When things are just peaceful. Quiet. Next. Oh,

[00:25:46] Matt: okay. Here. Um, I wake up super mega early and by super mega early, I mean like 4, 4 30.

I'm just a Nutter. So it's about not waking you up when I get out of bed.

[00:25:58] Fawn: So like tiptoeing around,

[00:26:00] Matt: which of course inevitably fails. I inevitably stub my toe fall over something or knock into something. But yeah.

[00:26:07] Fawn: Remember when Elle was just born and we were so tired, we just wanted her to sleep. And I remember this one day we finally tucked her in and she finally fell asleep.

You go over to, to take off your trousers, your jeans and all the change you had in there. And we had hardwood floors, they all fell out and it, it seemed to go on for hours, like in the rolling, like once they stopped bouncing the rolling in all different directions. It's

[00:26:41] Matt: funny. Now

[00:26:45] Fawn: I could not, I mean, okay, right before.

Okay, right before you yell, surprise, quiet.

That moment, yes.

[00:26:57] Matt: That moment of exploitation where everything's just quiet for sure. I can equate that very easily to my hole in one in disc golf. Cause I can't let that go. I love that. I throw a hole in one once. I remember after I released it and I watched it just that stillness right there as I watched it curve and went straight in and then just that sense of complete disbelief.


[00:27:22] Fawn: It was awesome. Uh, and also like if you're with a bunch of people, the fact that you're in unison like that excitement,

[00:27:29] Matt: nobody could believe I did

[00:27:30] Fawn: it, but like let's just go to a surprise party situation. It's like having a song that you're all singing together in perfect pitch, perfect harmony. And that sense of quiet, you all have. And you instinctively know when to yell, surprise together. It is such a sense of collaboration , you know, it's sweet.

All right. Making a wish, quiet. I love that. Like it's a respected the world, the universe, your friends, respect that.

Like, let's imagine you're blowing out your birthday candle and you're making a wish right before you do. That sense of honor and respect that occurs in that silence. I love that.

[00:28:15] Matt: Absolutely. You know, I remember I would, there's, there's a particular nursery rhyme that goes along with when the first star you see and you make a wish on it.

And so I would say that, and then people around me would get quiet as I actually made my wish Starlight star bright first star I see tonight. I wish I may. I wish I might have the wish I wish tonight. Tick, tick, tick. Good.

[00:28:38] Fawn: Ready for the next one?

[00:28:40] Matt: Yes.

[00:28:41] Fawn: Top of the rollercoaster. Quiet. Oh my God. To me, I associate this with like the eye of the hurricane, quiet when it's quiet, but you know, some stuff is going to go down. It could be good or bad. Right. But right before the storm, quiet is what it reminds me of. Going to the top of the rollercoaster where, you know, all of a sudden there's going to be a drop. Some people could be happy about it, but me personally, I'm like, I hate roller coasters. I'm like, oh

[00:29:09] Matt: gosh. Yeah. I like roller coasters. And honestly, for the longest time, I actually thought that they built a pause when you hit the top. But it turns out it's just probably my mind spinning at like a hundred miles an hour at that moment.

You're at the top going


[00:29:24] Fawn: And then you're dealing with, would it be inertia? Does inertia work for gravity like that? Do you know what I mean? Like you think you're going one way and then you get pulled over to this way and your body goes this other way. Nevermind. But like, it know I tend to, I tend to take things to the stressful level, but it could also be beautiful.

Like the quiet on top of the rollercoaster is all of a sudden seeing a beautiful view. But for me, that quiet is, oh, there's going to be a drop or, oh, how am I going to make it down this mountain that have climbed or. Where do I go next? Where are we headed? That kind of quiet that you're suspended; suspended in time suspended in between.

The next one is best friends don't need to talk quiet. I love this because, it's good to have a partner in life because there you're a witness in life. So you don't have to explain the same stuff over and over again, like, you know, the history, you know, what's up.

So when something else happens, you all have the same point of reference. So you don't have to waste time discussing what happened in the past. You just know and you move forward from there. I love that. Best friends. Don't need to talk quiet. How about you?

[00:30:47] Matt: That's just it, you develop shorthand certainly on.

So how I like to think of it with, with your friends, with your partner,

for sure.

[00:30:55] Fawn: Well, you can just move on with life. You don't have to go regurgitate something.

[00:30:59] Matt: Although sometimes I feel a need to explain then you're like, I know,

[00:31:03] Fawn: right. I don't understand why you need to explain it again, but

yeah, I get it. Yeah.

Next one is surprise visit from aunt Tilly quiet. When someone shows up that you're not expecting quiet, I could go good or bad. Like whoa. Something just showed up.

[00:31:21] Matt: That is

definitely true.

[00:31:24] Fawn: Let's see. I'm trying to think of present day. Like, well that happened. I can't think of anything right now.

Cause I feel like it happens a lot

[00:31:32] Matt: I have one. Did it just happen recently? So, um, my sister's husband sent us a gift for Christmas. Did not expect it didn't even know who it was from. It just came in a box. It wasn't wrapped in

[00:31:45] Fawn: They Amazoned us.

[00:31:46] Matt: They Amazoned us., but I had to basically take a look and start looking at how I return it in order to find out who sent it.

And I was like, who is this? And then click, click, click. And then it clicked over,

[00:32:01] Fawn: okay, next do iguanas bite, quiet. Like you go into a situation. You're like, oh oh, is this going to bite me or will it be nice? So you come face to face with something in life. It's not the case. Like. Do you bite, you can take that with a job with everything.

Like, I feel like I go through that all day, every day Do iguanas bite? Right?

[00:32:31] Matt: Absolutely. And when you start a new job, you really get a sense of what the job is really going to be like in your first week. And it, you tend to be quieter your first week, I

[00:32:40] Fawn: mean, you know, you've the first time you meet someone, like the first time I met you, I thought you were a motorcycle gangster.

I thought you were some crazy, like, um, violent looking person, you know what I mean? And I had the same reaction, like, what what's he doing? Well, well, I thought, well, maybe it's not. Do you know what I mean? I was still starting to learn about Aikido. I didn't really know how peaceful it was. I just saw you.

I'm like, oh my God.

Okay, next. Before the concert starts quiet. Oh man. Lord, we brought up concert. Matt, Matt is in, a realm right now. Okay. Do you want to pontificate or shall we go

[00:33:24] Matt: on,

is it a certain bands I've seen, an interesting number of times and they start their show in much the same way. Like you hear the sound check and the sound check is always the same you can actually hear, and it's not the singer doing the sound check.

Somebody else. I hear

[00:33:36] Fawn: it in my head right now. The violin is checking the P the tuning, the whatever you call it.

[00:33:42] Matt: And then typically, um, every band has their own kind of, uh, an intro. Like what's interesting is like, I remember Rush. They like to do the three Stooges. Hello, hello, hello. And then everything gets quiet for a second.

And then the crowd starts to cheer and then the lights go on and they start, oh. Cause like, you know, you're about to be treated to an experience,

[00:34:08] Fawn: right? You, that that is a beautiful metaphor for. Every day, all day life. If you think about it.

All right, next one. Here's here's me trying not to hiccup quiet.

So this was me on our last episode, but the hiccup was like, I was just trying not to say anything kind of quiet because I felt like it would have been just a bunch of hiccups and not heard or understood because I couldn't finish the thought. I couldn't finish the sentence.

[00:34:40] Matt: Well, I just think about it literally because ladies and gentlemen of our audience, I have the loudest hiccups in the world.

[00:34:46] Fawn: They are very scary. I

[00:34:48] Matt: literally sounds like I'm breaking something inside my body. It's that loud and it doesn't hurt and I really enjoy it, but there are ways you can do. I do, because it's like, it's almost like a lion's roar. It's like, here I am. And because it's quote unquote involuntary, cause it is.

Yeah, I can't control it. However, there are ways you can keep your hiccups from making noise. And so I'll do that in instances, but if I'm talking all of a sudden that,

[00:35:17] Fawn: okay, but trying not to hiccup quiet when things need to be quiet and you need to see you're diverging when you need to be quiet and you are hiccuping.

Right. You know, I, but I needed to be quiet even though every instinct in my body and my spirit was saying, no. All right, try not to hiccup quiet as a challenge. Good Lord, which is us. Now, we're going to have like five shows based on the fact that I couldn't speak on one episode.

First snowfall, quiet.

I love this when things shift and all of a sudden little snowflakes are falling. If you've ever been. in a snow falling situation. Everything is quiet. I can always tell, like when I go to sleep and I wake up in the middle of the night or I wake up early, early in the morning, usually at all times of the night, we can hear traffic, but when there's snow, everything is muffled.

Everything is turned down even people's emotions. And the quiet is so beautiful that you can hear every snowflake touching another. It is beautiful. First snowfall, quiet. Anything to add. Matt has nothing to add to this one.

All right. Car ride at night, quiet. They could go either way. For me, it's terrifying.

I don't like driving at night, so I'm very quiet. My eyes are big wide, right? I just want to get to wherever we're getting. But yeah, car ride quiet either again, it can go either way. It could be, uh, a very blissful feeling or a kind of a stressful feeling, but you don't want to make noise cause you don't want to distract or you don't want to make noise because it's so mysterious and beautiful,

[00:37:16] Matt: right?

No, no, no, absolutely. I used to get in my teens, I would love going and just jumping in the car and driving because I had my own space and I had control and I dot. And then later when we lived in LA, I actually really enjoyed like first thing in the morning going for a ride. And I remember one time I rode my bike swear to goodness from, um, my place, which was in west LA to Dodger stadium.

[00:37:45] Fawn: You've talked about this so many times it was

[00:37:47] Matt: empty. It was just, there was, there was,

[00:37:52] Fawn: I think that is one of your most favorite moments. It was a life. Cause you keep bringing it up. Okay. It's just, there's a lot to it, but you're taking things so literally

[00:38:02] Matt: I know I can't help it.

[00:38:04] Fawn: I'm

I'm yeah. You take things literally.

And I'm like, isn't this life, what's a metaphor. Okay. Let's keep going.

Too many bubbles, quiet. Now this is the scene in the book where there are way too many bubbles in the bathtub and it's overflowed on the ground. So you have beautiful bubbles. Lovely. And then you notice, oh my goodness. It's everywhere.

It's on the floor. It's probably going to go to the next floor underneath you. It's beautiful, but oh,

[00:38:35] Matt: well it's feels like a cavalcade of fun in our kitchen when we're baking. Sometimes stuff

[00:38:41] Fawn: is everywhere and it's not quiet though.

[00:38:46] Matt: Well, the moment you realize that flour is everywhere, it can get quiet.

[00:38:51] Fawn: But I like, yeah, an overflowing of abundance, quiet. Like how are you going to manage it? Quiet. All right. Next one is

Storytime quiet.

And from here, the book goes into tucking into bed, bedtime, kiss. What flashlight sound quiet and then deep asleep quiet. And that's the book.

So now let's get into the quiet friend. I've always said when I'm bearing my soul to you, when I'm telling you something that's been so painful for me, and I've just opened up my entire life to you or my entire pain to you.

If you are quiet, it really throws me off the deep end. It's not okay for me. Yet, we have friends that are psychotherapists and psychologists who say that quiet is space that's good. And I'm saying, well, if I was your client, I'm telling you right now, you better not be quiet. Once I tell you a, B and C of like major trauma.

If you're just sitting there staring and nodding at me, I'm about to have a major way worse panic attack than I already do have I can't have you be quiet. I need you to tell me something, make a sound, make a sound to let me know that you heard me, that you understand my pain. Don't be quiet please.

[00:40:25] Matt: But there are those thoughts that go out that, that they just need.

Just a moment. They need a beat or two beats or three beats to just echo. No, I

[00:40:37] Fawn: have. But that needs to be really carefully thought out because usually it's not just a few moments, it's just pure silence. And that is horrible. Yes. Because let me tell you, coming from a person that has experienced trauma, I have been alone in that you feel like you're in a black hole, you feel like there's no life.

There's nothing. Can't hear anything you can't see straight. You can't, you're stuck. You're in a continuous void. So if there's more silence after I've thought of a way to express what I'm going through, that doesn't help. And I'm talking not only for myself, I'm talking about what is happening in the world today.

If you're silent about it and just looking at it, it does absolutely no service. And this is where the fireside chat comes in. That we're going to have in a couple of weeks. Is, we're going to bring in some friends that have different points of view from what I'm saying, you know, they totally think the opposite and I'm, I'm the kind of person that's like, no, I need, if someone expresses something to me, I'm not going to let them be alone.

I wouldn't say I'm going to say something. I want to make sure that they feel my embrace. Even if it's me not saying anything best believe you will have my arms around you, caressing you, holding you. And if you don't want to be held like that, that I will find out another way that space appropriate for you yet, I'm still holding you, letting you know that you're not alone.

And I think, I don't know what's happened in our culture and we'll discuss this on our fireside chat, which by the way, if you want to be a part of, send me an email that you want to be a part of this. We're going to have a big zoom meeting about this, a whole bunch of people talking about this subject.

So I forgot what I was saying. What was I saying? Fireside chat.


[00:42:38] Matt: those moments of silence.

[00:42:40] Fawn: I just want the different points of view of course. But my point of view is it's not okay to be quiet. The violence against humanity every single group. Why are we quiet? What, so you're now you're going to go on your own mode and go.

I'm just going to take care of myself. Take care of yourself. Yeah. Make sure you're good. But,

[00:43:03] Matt: but that's not what you were talking about when you started it. You were talking about when somebody reveals something and if you're quiet immediately after somebody reveals something very personal as what you don't like, and now you shift,

[00:43:16] Fawn: I did shift gears.

Sorry. I'm very heated about this topic. It's not just for a few moments. It will go on forever. I hate that. It's not okay. Right. Why am I even bothering talking to you? Right. If you're just going to sit there and stare at me, it's not helpful, but I'm sure you know, our friends totally disagree.

I know for a fact that they do, but they're not here right now. I'm just letting you know, just think about that. We've had so many people tell us that silence is what they need. People have enough silence . So I'm sorry. I digress.

So there are good quiets and bad quiets, you know, like the good quiets or the magical quiets of seeing a beautiful forest creature.

You've come face-to-face with, that's a beautiful, quiet, right? It's magical. Gossip quiet. We experienced this a lot. Like I could not believe the gossip that would happen and it hurt my feelings. Not because of the gossip, because I really have no secrets. Like I don't care. Right. But what hurt my feelings was, wow, you could be talking to me and you're going to listen to this person talking about me instead of having a conversation with me that kind of quiet is some BS being left out, quiet. Being ignored quiet that's might be the worst. That's the worst.

So mad. You're so mad. Quiet. I don't know if that's good or bad, because if I were to unleash my fury in the moment of a rage, it, first of all, you probably wouldn't understand a word I was saying, but also I'll say some things that are like nuclear bombs. You know what I mean? Like horrible can't retract, right?

Um, yeah.

[00:45:05] Matt: Right. And honestly, you know, from the number of times you've talked about the Tibetan monks

[00:45:11] Fawn: who. They keep it all in and they go straight for

[00:45:14] Matt: compassion and they go, they try and make it okay. As opposed to really expressing, I mean, every once in a

[00:45:20] Fawn: while, explain that. Hold on. So we're talking about, you have every right to feel rage.

You have every right to feel anger, but you won't allow yourself to, because you're going to go straight to experiencing compassion for this person. If you go straight from not experiencing the rage and just going straight to understanding and love and compassion, forgiveness, it's not okay.

You need to at least acknowledge that you are, you have felt wronged because it will show up in your body. Right. And in what Matt is bringing up is a study Dr. Mario Martinez did on Tibetan monks who have the highest case of diabetes because he figured it out it's because of not experiencing this emotion of rage.

And going straight to love and kindness, meditation compassion. I didn't mean to cut you off. I just wanted to

[00:46:15] Matt: explain that's fine. And you know, you need to, you need to express yourself.

[00:46:21] Fawn: That's all. There are different forms of not being quiet.

There are different forms of showing what you think is a better way. I can equate it to photography. I definitely photographed countries that were at war that there was violence happening, but I knew I had lots of friends, acquaintances,

peers, that that was their job. , they were war photographers. I chose to focus on something else. I never would have a gun in my photographs. It was about beauty and love.

I have my focus, I have my way of getting a message out and my friends have their way of getting the message out.


[00:47:07] Matt: your photography's about seeing yourself or coming to an understanding that people are people and there is a universal feeling language, whatever you want to call it. I mean, people everywhere and people are proud of their, you know, fathers are proud of their sons and daughters and, you know, sons and daughters are respectful to, you know, there's so many kind of similar traits in general in people tend to ignore when they're the enemy.


[00:47:42] Fawn: You can't. Yeah. When you say someone is crazy, you're, you're putting up that silent wall. And you're ignoring them and it's

[00:47:52] Matt: disrespectful almost a different kind of quiet too. Yeah,

[00:47:55] Fawn: exactly. You're not going to hear them. Exactly. Exactly. So labeling someone like that provides such deafening silence that will actually create more violence.

So a particular group does not get heard. Guess what? Much like a toddler, much like a baby that needs attention that needs something vital. If you're not going to hear, if you're not going to be attuned to that baby, that baby needs milk, that baby needs something. Right, they will start screaming louder and louder.

Right? Yeah. We're all children. Back to the photography thing, my whole point is, if you really look at the photographs and I've. Totally crucified for this. Like I'm the worst photographer. Why do you have the people looking in the camera all the time?

It's because if you look at people's eyes, you will see herself. Right? And I can't believe I have to say this out loud after all these years, you know? Cause I, I don't want to say that would, that's what I'm, that's the feeling that I wanted people to have is when you look at someone, when you're talking with someone and you have eye contact, you see yourself, but be careful, don't put yourself on this person, see them for who they are.

Once you go through all those things, it's just seeing them, then you'll see yourself. But don't see yourself from the very beginning, see their pain, see their joy, see everything like you're watching a movie without being attached to them. And then you'll realize that's me. That's me too.

That's why I like photography. It's quiet. That's why I like still photography. It is quiet, but in that quiet, there's a lot of things being said, a lot of music, understanding. There's a lot of story.

[00:49:56] Matt: Well, yeah. Person's eyes show their entire existence.

You know, you can see that written on a person's face, their entire existence. So obviously there is a lot of noise as it were, and it's not noise. It's stories. It's, you know, hardships, it's joys, it's everything. It's the human condition.

[00:50:16] Fawn: The quiet friend is a very complex friend. Don't misunderstand the quiet friend.

Don't underestimate the quiet friend. That quiet friend could be a quiet revolution. That quiet friend could be a quiet, beautiful, loving, friend. That quiet friend could be the one who has known your experiences and could be your witness and is your witness friend. That quiet friend could be your enemy shunning you quiet friend.

I'm saying the quiet, friend is a complex friend and that's the quiet friend. I think that's it for me today. We are going to have a tableside chat about ways to be quiet and ways to not be quiet. And the consequences of that. We're going to have a fireside chat. If you want to be a part of it, email me by going to our friendly world and join us for a zoom.

We're going to talk and just to have a fireside chat like around the campfire, a whole bunch of us talking and expressing our ideas and our experiences. We're going to do this more often. Again, just a private zoom, our friendly world Thank you again, KJ Nashville and Rachel Chevallier for the cups of coffee

you got us. Thank you. So love you and appreciate you, please. If you like our show, please, we don't do commercials. We don't do ads like that. Any kind of support you could give us will is truly so appreciated. If you could buy us a cup of coffee, there's a, there's an app on our, on our site, our friendly

Again, thank you so much for listening, always. We'll talk to you in just a few days. Thank you. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye.