March 20, 2023

The Art of Self Awareness

The Art of Self Awareness

The whole platform for our podcast is the art of friendship, and at the root is the art of communication.In discussing self-awareness, taking a look at ourselves and how we operate. Getting to know who we truly are, how we react to things, what our history is, why we think a certain way, why we act a certain way, what makes us introverted?What makes us like an outgoing person? What makes us want to do what we're doing? Like, where does all that come from? Understanding that will help us to understand others. SELF: (noun) a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action. A person's particular nature or personality, the quality that makes a person individual or unique. One's own interests or pleasure used ironically to refer to oneself as someone else. Like for example, "The only side worth supporting is your own sweet self. "Okay, SELF (verb): Self Pollinate Self-fertilize. Here's an example. " A variety that selfs itself loses lots of vigor in the progeny".SELF: (adjective) of a trimming or cover of the same material and color as the rest of the item. "A dress with self belt". link in the show notes you feel like growing up you had protection more or did you have connection more like a sense of togetherness? Did you feel more protection from the family or did you feel a sense of connection and togetherness? what are your expectations of a friendship?
Pick up a free copy of Fawn's workbook on making friends:

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The whole platform for our podcast is the art of friendship, and at the root is the art of communication.

In discussing self-awareness, taking a look at ourselves and how we operate. Getting to know who we truly are, how we react to things, what our history is, why we think a certain way, why we act a certain way, what makes us introverted?

What makes us like an outgoing person? What makes us want to do what we're doing? Like, where does all that come from? Understanding that will help us to understand others.

SELF: (noun) a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action. A person's particular nature or personality, the quality that makes a person individual or unique. One's own interests or pleasure used ironically to refer to oneself as someone else. Like for example, "The only side worth supporting is your own sweet self. "Okay,

SELF (verb): Self Pollinate Self-fertilize. Here's an example. " A variety that selfs itself loses lots of vigor in the progeny".

SELF: (adjective) of a trimming or cover of the same material and color as the rest of the item. "A dress with self belt".

link in the show notes

do you feel like growing up you had protection more or did you have connection more like a sense of togetherness?

Did you feel more protection from the family or did you feel a sense of connection and togetherness?

what are your expectations of a friendship?

Pick up a free copy of Fawn's workbook on making friends:



The Art of Self Awareness
[00:00:00] FAWN: Okay, jumping in. Hi everybody. Welcome back. 
[00:00:03] MATT: Greetings and salutations. 
[00:00:05] FAWN: There's so much I wanna talk about that we kept sitting here, sitting, sitting, sitting. We've been sitting for like two hours now. 
[00:00:11] MATT: My goodness. 
[00:00:12] FAWN: And not pressing the button. the need to be perfect. The need to communicate everything we want to today. This is going back to "ME, WE" the shortest poem in history written by Muhammad Ali. We're starting this whole thing of getting back to the roots again. We never repeat an episode. We'll never, you know, I wouldn't say never, but we try not to repeat ourselves.
[00:00:40] FAWN: So if you, that was my stomach. Did you hear that ?
[00:00:43] MATT: I 
[00:00:44] MATT: did. 
[00:00:45] FAWN: Oh my god. I did the celery juice. When I do the celery juice, I just, my body gets very noisy. 
[00:00:50] MATT: Strange things going on.
[00:00:52] FAWN: Ugh. So anyway, um, I forgot what I was saying. What were we saying? Me? We, um, we don't repeat ourselves. That's right. 
[00:01:01] FAWN: So please try to go back to other episodes and look at the titles and see what jumps out at you. I think it's always good to refresh ourselves on thoughts that we have in general, like getting to know our histories and getting to know who we are and how we react to everything.
[00:01:20] FAWN: It's really important. And it's also important to go back to the episodes and listen to other things again. Um, I'm saying that to myself too, because our friends will reach out to us and say, oh, you said this. I'm like, when did we say that? ? I don't remember
[00:01:38] FAWN: but, so I wanna say, we've done this before and this is what it's all about. The whole platform for our podcast is the art of friendship, but I think at the root of it is the art of communication. And so what I wanna do the next, while I don't know how long it's going to be because it's, it's such a rich topic, I just want to concentrate on the art of communication.
[00:02:03] FAWN: which is the art of friendship. So, going back to "Me, We", I want to start today by discussing self-awareness, taking a look at ourselves and how we operate. Getting to know who we truly are, how we react to things, what our history is, why we think a certain way, why we act a certain way, what makes us introverted?
[00:02:28] FAWN: What makes us like an outgoing person? What makes us want to do what we're doing? Like, where does all that come from? Understanding that will help us to understand others. And sometimes life gets so, you know, I hate the word busy. I'm not going to use that word , but there's so many things that are asking for our attention.
[00:02:52] FAWN: That it sometimes feels impossible to collect ourselves be still and, and think about what we are experiencing, and how we are experiencing them. I think oftentimes we're just forced to react on the fly, like in the moment quickly. And so anyway, so exploring self-awareness and going back to, again, me, we, we need to understand ourselves and in understanding ourselves, we know others because everybody is really us at the, energetic level.
[00:03:31] FAWN: We're all operating as one unit. Depends on how you wanna look at it, but that's how I see things. , I see that we're all interconnected. So self. I looked it up.
[00:03:42] MATT: Oh dear.
[00:03:43] FAWN: I looked up the etymology and it didn't really, it didn't really say much, you know, like sometimes I love getting into a word and understanding, oh my God, this means actually this
[00:03:54] FAWN: It's fascinating, but not so with SELF. So SELF was pretty simple. So I went back to just the dictionary meaning of it. Mm-hmm. . And, um, I found it more profound actually. just a random, standard dictionary noun. A person's, so this is SELF: (noun) a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action. A person's particular nature or personality, the quality that makes a person individual or unique. One's own interests or pleasure used ironically to refer to oneself as someone else. Like for example, "The only side worth supporting is your own sweet self. "Okay, so that was the noun. Okay, so verb. There was a verb I never thought of about it as a verb.
[00:04:51] FAWN: Did you, Matt, can 
[00:04:52] MATT: you use 
[00:04:53] FAWN: it in a sentence? Well, okay, here, I'll just do, I'm just going to read. Hold on.  SELF (verb): Self Pollinate Self fertilize. Here's an example. " A variety that selfs itself loses lots of vigor in the progeny". Let me say that again. . 
[00:05:13] MATT: Oh my 
[00:05:14] MATT: goodness, that was a mouthful. ,
[00:05:15] FAWN: let me say that again.
[00:05:16] MATT: That was weird. Um, a variety that selfs itself loses lots of vigor in the progeny. I don't know what that means. Okay. Moving on. Cause again, this is the verb. An animal or a plant to breed with or fertilize, one of the same hybrid origin or strain example is: "In each progeny, three to five plants were selfed", uh, 
[00:05:44] MATT: I've never heard it used that 
[00:05:45] FAWN: way.
[00:05:45] FAWN: Well, that's what the dictionary is. Just, just, okay. So, and then the last one is adjective form of SELF: (adjective) of a trimming or cover of the same material and color as the rest of the item. "A dress with self belt". I've heard that. 
[00:06:04] MATT: Okay. I have not, once again, 
[00:06:07] MATT: I don't get out much. 
[00:06:09] FAWN: That's the definition.
[00:06:11] FAWN: So let's get into some questions that we're gonna ask today of ourselves and I'm gonna, I'm gonna share some personal stories. and I'm gonna ask you for yours, Matt. Oh dear. So hold onto your seatbelts. Okay. Hope you have a self belted dress on. . Do you have a self belted dress? I'm 
[00:06:30] MATT: not wearing a dress today.
[00:06:31] MATT: I'm sorry. 
[00:06:33] FAWN: Anyway, here we go. Questions. One of them is, growing up, what did you have too much of? And what did you have too little of? 
[00:06:44] FAWN: Not enough chocolate. No, no. Wait, just stop it, . Okay. I'm just going to stop. I'm just gonna ask a bunch of questions. No comments from the gallery, please.
[00:06:53] FAWN: Okay. So when you were growing up, did you have, what did you have too much of and what did you have too little of? Okay. There's that one check. Okay. Were you raised to be self-sufficient? Matt's writing notes. Can you hear 'em? , were you raised to be self-sufficient, like autonomous or were you raised within like a big community, like a group where there was a sense of loyalty, like being there for others, where you felt a sense of belonging, that it wasn't about one person, it was about you're loyal to others that like, that's the most important thing, 
[00:07:36] FAWN: as opposed to just take care of it yourself. You're on your own, whatever. See, like when I ask these questions, they remind me of the American culture. I think I can ask individually, like as a person, how are you raised? But I think we can look at it as a country, what is this? . And as a country, if we answer these questions, how has that built our nation and how has that built our society?
[00:08:07] FAWN: Which in effect touches all the other cultures around the world, because we're all interconnected now, and how you act touches someone else. So let's take a look at ourselves, not just as one individual self, but like an individual nation or an in an individual community. Community. I can't talk today that, and I'm doing voiceover work, so now I'm very, very, um, thinking about my mouth clicks.
[00:08:35] FAWN: Sorry, everybody, my mouth is clicking anyway. Um, . Um, so that's one question.
[00:08:44] FAWN: In your childhood, cuz you know, everything comes back to childhood. I think the reason why we have forgotten the Art of Friendship is because of how we were raised. I think friendship comes out of how you were raised. I've always said that how our family dynamic was. The reason for loneliness, especially in the United States, is because of the family dynamics that was so revered like in America to revered.
[00:09:08] FAWN: You know, like you get out at 18, do it on your own. The bootstrap thing, pick yourself up. You know what I'm saying? Yes. You're on your own kid. So when you were growing up, did you need more connection or did you need more protect?
[00:09:25] FAWN: Sorry. When you think of your family history, what are the main chapters that stick out in your head, in your mind? In your spirit? I heard, a psychologist. I think she's a psychologist Or is she a psycho psychotherapist or, the other one where they give you drugs, I don't know, but her name is Esther I'll put a link in the show notes: So what is your family marker? We'll get into that later in depth like the question. , she was also saying, Esther Peril was also saying that we all need two things. There are two fundamental things that we all need. One is security and safety, and the other is freedom. We all need connection, yet we all need separateness. Thinking about that, did, do you feel like growing up you had protection more or did you have connection more like a sense of togetherness. 
[00:10:23] FAWN: Did you feel more protection from the family or did you feel a sense of connection and togetherness  And one of the other questions today is when you think of a friendship, when you think of a relationship, what are your expectations of a friendship? What do you expect of a relationship? So for example, when Matt almost died, he was out of the hospital when everything slowed down a little bit, when we were out of the danger, danger zone, you were out of the hospital. And I could finally just go, what, what just happened here? What happened here? So much happened. We almost lost you, one. the dynamic with the kids completely changed because all of a sudden they had to be left with strangers for a couple weeks while we were in this far away hospital.
[00:11:16] FAWN: They were with this other family that was not like ours. We didn't really know them. All of a sudden, they picked up weird habits that these other kids had. They started fighting, which they never did before. All this was happening. And another thing that happened was all the people that I considered to be our best friends disappeared.
[00:11:38] FAWN: All of them, they just disappeared. We never heard from them again on my side, now, Matt's best friend just showed up and saved the day, but, . The others were, I think as soon as they found out what was happening, they just disappeared. To this day, they don't know if we're alive or what. And I remember, so this was when things had slowed down a little bit.
[00:12:08] FAWN: I made a phone call to one of the therapists. I studied spiritual response therapy years and years ago, and sometimes I still reach out to them when I need help, when I need extra therapy that I can't figure out myself. So I made a call and I was talking to this woman and one of the things I was telling her was how everyone disappeared.
[00:12:29] FAWN: And she said something that marked me forever. She said, you are expecting too much from friendship. Your expectation is way, way different. And it's too high for people. You expect a lot. and that totally hurt my feelings. And she's like, no, don't look at it as that. Don't let your feelings be hurt.
[00:12:52] FAWN: What I'm saying is you have much more capacity for friendship and you expect that others have the same, and people don't, people don't have the same capacity to, to be empathetic or to be there to help or to be there for people. They don't have it in them to be that way.
[00:13:14] FAWN: And you do, but they don't. Does that make sense, Matt? 
[00:13:18] MATT: It does. It a, it revolves around, 
[00:13:20] MATT: we've talked about oftentimes people are in survival mode, they're operating at their highest capacity. Mm-hmm. , et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it can be a challenging thing when. Friendships get tested for the first time.
[00:13:35] MATT: Cause I think in a lot of those cases, that was friendship really getting tested for the first time. 
[00:13:40] MATT: Yeah. 
[00:13:41] FAWN: And what we're here for is to not have you be in that situation. So we always talk about the Nichomachian ethics and realizing when you meet someone, seeing what their capacity is and also what we want to do now with the art of communication, we're gonna do a huge series on it.
[00:14:00] FAWN: Like in a couple weeks, will be here. We're gonna talk about all the different forms of communication that exist. Veda Austin communicates with water. We are realizing how rich life is and how much information and wisdom is all around us at all times.
[00:14:18] FAWN: And, and I, and you're never 
[00:14:20] FAWN: alone.
[00:14:20] MATT: And I like to think of it as there's all levels of all different levels of communication and I could say, oh yes, I really like that fill in the blank. Right. And I could mean that sarcastically. I could mean that seriously. I could mean that joking. I could mean a million things.
[00:14:36] MATT: Mm-hmm. context is so important. Understanding nuance of conversation is so important. And understanding levels of conversation are so important. 
[00:14:45] FAWN: And understanding micro movements. Someone can be saying 
[00:14:48] FAWN: one thing, but like in a split second, their lips may disappear or one eye will close. Or you know, there is just a little micro physical movement.
[00:14:57] FAWN: Right. And that tells you everything.
[00:15:00] MATT: I 
[00:15:00] MATT: always think it's funny when somebody's making an affirming statement and they shake their head no.
[00:15:04] FAWN: Exactly. Like, are you having a good time when they shake their heads no, but they're like, yeah, I'm having a lovely time. . 
[00:15:12] MATT: Well, are you or aren't you? It's a little unclear here, 
[00:15:14] FAWN: guys.
[00:15:15] FAWN: We can never watch movies or tv cuz that's what we we're like, that's a lie. , they, they're not and some really good actors, like they know how to do that. So like, you know when the actor wants to say, actually no. And they want you to know that it's a no. But then they're saying yes anyway. It's very interesting.
[00:15:37] FAWN: Body language. That's it. Anyway, going back to self-awareness, which questions should we start with? I'll start with this one. Matt, growing up. 
[00:15:48] MATT: Yes, Fawn 
[00:15:50] FAWN: growing up. What did you have too much of and what did you have too little of? 
[00:15:56] MATT: So growing 
[00:15:56] MATT: up.
[00:15:58] MATT: You know, and, um, my mother was a teacher, so she was underfoot as it were, certainly when I was in elementary school. What does that mean? Means she was around during the summers. Mm-hmm. like always. And you know, when I got off of school she was be home with about 45 minutes to an hour after I got home at the latest.
[00:16:23] MATT: So there was never really any opportunity to be quote unquote independent, certainly when I was very young. So this would've been, uh, probably up until like fourth or fifth grade. So, you know, until I was about 10. And then 
[00:16:40] FAWN: long about, hold on. So are you saying you had too much parents around? I'm saying I 
[00:16:44] MATT: didn't know, but they were always.
[00:16:48] MATT: was it too much? I don't know. I didn't feel like too much because I was just going 
[00:16:54] FAWN: with the flow. I think you're getting the questions mixed up because maybe that has something to do with being self-sufficient as opposed to community like autonomy versus the loyalty thing. So I'm asking, you know what, let me go first.
[00:17:10] FAWN: What, what did I have too much of and what did I have too little of? Um, but see, my history is like very volatile. I had too much fear in my family. I had too much hatred. I had too much hiding. Like I wasn't hiding. Like they hid things, they hid emotions, they hid things that happened. They hid birthdays.
[00:17:37] FAWN: Well, no, the birthday thing comes because we were dealing with three different cultures. There's the. The, the Persian culture, there's the Jewish culture and then there's the American culture. So we had those and they all have different, um, they have different calendars. So with the Jewish calendar, your birthday may be on this date this year, but next year it's going to be a totally different date, cuz you're going by a different calendar.
[00:18:04] FAWN: So, yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, I don't know when I was born really, you know, like they didn't do the time and stuff like, oh, you know, when people do their astrology charts, I'm jealous. I'm like, I don't know, , I don't know. So anyway, they did such a brave thing.
[00:18:22] FAWN: They had to leave a country and they went back and forth on it and they left way before really the rest of the world found out what was happening. They sensed what was happening. They were like, Okay, this is not good , we need to move. Right? And so, but then there was the whole sense of obligation to family and like my mom didn't wanna leave her mother and her siblings behind and, and then my dad was like, you all need to move.
[00:18:49] FAWN: I'm telling you this is not okay. There's war coming. And they were like, no, but we finally became successful in our businesses. We can't leave that and basically start all over again. I don't know. I really don't know. This is what, as an adult, I'm think, I'm assuming they were thinking, right? I don't know.
[00:19:09] FAWN: Well, it, because no one ever, 
[00:19:10] MATT: it's a hard thing to step away from your life and build something new in a strange place. 
[00:19:17] FAWN: And so again, this is my perspective. No one ever talked about it. So I don't know how they felt. All I know is there was too much fighting. There was too much animosity, there was too much jealousy because when one family did this and then another family tried to, well, my family would do something and then they would invite relatives and you know, they would come over and it seemed so lovely.
[00:19:42] FAWN: But then when everyone went away, they talked behind their backs in such a horrible way. It was frightening. I'm like, so do you love or not love? Because it seemed like you loved, but then you really don't, the way you were speaking is terrible. Right. And they, that's how they treated me too. And this is one of the reasons I left the family, right?
[00:20:03] FAWN: Because I didn't want that in our marriage and I didn't want that for our children. I didn't want it to leak onto the next generation. 
[00:20:11] MATT: And that ha lingers to this day because you're the most astonishingly honest, open person I know. 
[00:20:20] FAWN: I, I just think it's take, it takes too much energy to hide and it takes too much energy to lie.
[00:20:27] FAWN: It takes too much energy to just like bottle things up. I'd rather communicate with you exactly what's happening and where I stand. And if you're with me, great. We move together, we, we play together. And if not, that's cool, man, because you are not the same vibration. So you know, you're happy. I'm happy. We don't have to waste all this time and energy and effort, you know what I'm saying?
[00:20:54] FAWN: Absolutely. But really, I grew up with so much of stuff I also grew up with. Um, okay. We're talking about too much. I grew up with too much uncertainty. Um, and that's why to this day, I feel like in our family, and you grew up the opposite of the way I did, but. , I'm like ready to pack up and move in an instant.
[00:21:19] FAWN: Right. Because I, I'm an immigrant, um, basically getting away from war. So buying a house doesn't mean security to me cuz I know it can be taken away. Just because you have a country doesn't mean your country will still be 
[00:21:38] MATT: there. Which of course makes it challenging for you to be centered on some level, right?
[00:21:44] FAWN: Yeah. Which explains why I was never even comfortable in my own body. Um, so I had too much of that. I had too little friendship growing up. Am I too loud? You took off your headphones? No, I have to go to the bathroom. Matt has to go to the bathroom. I'll just keep talking . Oh, 
[00:22:04] MATT: thank you for that.
[00:22:07] FAWN: No, I'll wait. 
[00:22:09] MATT: Nope, I'll 
[00:22:10] FAWN: wait.
[00:22:10] FAWN: Okay, everybody. Matt is back from the bathroom 
[00:22:14] MATT: and, oh my Lord. Are you gonna put this in the You are, aren't you? I am. 
[00:22:18] FAWN: I'm gonna put it in the show. And then Allegro came and gave me a hug. I don't know why. Did you hear what I was talking about? Is that why you gave me a hug? 
[00:22:24] FAWN: Yes. 
[00:22:25] FAWN: Oh, baby. Thank you. All right, so, so Allegro, we were talking about growing up, and you can answer these now as you're growing up inside this family, but we're talking about growing up.
[00:22:39] FAWN: What did you have too much of and what did you have too little of? And then dad, Matt was talking about . So Matt was talking about. . Other things I, he jumped the question cause Oh my Lord. 
[00:22:53] MATT: And I didn't, but that's fine. No, you were 
[00:22:56] FAWN: talking about autonomy. No, look, you were okay. You want, you Okay.
[00:23:01] FAWN: From my perspective as a Persian person, like basically you were saying, well, my mom was home after school and during the summer and that was too much. And 
[00:23:11] MATT: I did not, I never 
[00:23:12] FAWN: said that. That's how it came across to me. Okay. So I wanna, okay, let me just go first. Okay, let me finish. So growing up, whatever I had the too much fear, too much anxiety, all that I didn't get.
[00:23:26] FAWN: What I had too little of was reassurance. I would say zero reassurance, support in ways like they were never part of my schooling, like for first grade, half of first grade, I was in the Middle East, half of first grade I was in the United States, half of second grade over there, half of second grade here.
[00:23:51] FAWN: Now, when the last time we went back, the Islamic regime was coming and things were scary. Everything was changed. So I went from going to this English school in Iran to all of a sudden it completely changed I checked myself into school. I talked about this before, there was no pta, there was no parent teacher association. . I, I like shown up to school. My mom just dropped me off. I'm, I'm like, okay. So I went in and I just went to the class.
[00:24:27] FAWN: Somehow I knew where to go, but I go and they're like, what are you doing here? We got rid of all your records. I'm like, thank you. Okay, . I'm like, I had to figure that out all by myself. It was scary, right? It was scary because with a new regime, they hated Americans and we were American, so I was hated. They basically, the teacher was like, oh my God.
[00:24:54] FAWN: She was dressed on black, like head to toe with a chadore and everything. She was like, what are you doing here? I'm like, okay then. Even growing up in the United States, I never got any kind of guidance for a college, nothing. I did everything by myself. I started working when I was like, in sixth grade, I started making t-shirts and selling them.
[00:25:16] FAWN: And then once I was 16 I could work, and I saved all my money for college, and I paid in cash. Obviously I only had enough to just pay for a little bit. I couldn't afford to stay in school. I just had to do things on my own. I had very little support growing up and I didn't have a lot of friends either.
[00:25:41] FAWN: So once I got out at age 18, once I graduated high school, I uh, flew to San Francisco and I, you know, I learned to do everything by myself. I was my own parent, I was my own friend. But also because I grew up the way I did, that's where my sense of friendship really came in because I was like, I want community.
[00:26:05] FAWN: I want to have a big family and I'm gonna make it myself. And that leads to the other question of autonomy versus the loyalty community thing, which we'll talk about later cuz I wanna know your answer now and also Allegra's answer. Um, Allegra, what are the things, be gentle. Please.
[00:26:28] FAWN: What? What did you, 
[00:26:29] MATT: oh dear.
[00:26:29] FAWN: I'm not gonna do anything cr I'm not gonna do anything crazy. Well, what do you think you have too much of and what do you think you have too little of growing up in our family, this little family? 
[00:26:41] FAWN: Well, to be honest, it kind of feels like the majority of the time I have to like tell you guys stuff and like be around you and it feels like it's too much a lot of the time that, are we all up in your business?
[00:26:57] FAWN: Kind of like sometimes I just wanna be alone or something and you're like, okay, tell me in every detail exactly what happens and don't leave 
[00:27:06] MATT: excruciating 
[00:27:07] MATT: detail. Sometimes I'm sure, 
[00:27:09] FAWN: and I do say when you go to college, I'm coming with you . And I don't necessarily want to live with you guys forever, but, but why not?
[00:27:21] FAWN: Because I,
[00:27:27] MATT: and there you go folks. 
[00:27:29] FAWN: Well, I mean, okay, so here's the thing. Interracial family, right? I grew up not, I grew up, I don't wanna talk about how I grew up, but like in, in most other cultures, families don't split up. We stay together. Which takes us to the other question, the, the loyalty versus autonomy thing.
[00:27:47] FAWN: I don't want the generations all split up. I, I want to have this area where there's enough room for the kids to own their own houses, but we live on the same land that we're together, I don't like this whole thing of you're out at age 18. I don't like this whole thing of this is yours. This is mine. It's ours.
[00:28:10] FAWN: This is, this is our house. It's our money. , it's our everything. But mom, at some point I'm gonna have to learn to be an adult and like have my own place and learn about like, like adult life and stuff. 
[00:28:26] MATT: And that is how Allegra defines adult. 
[00:28:28] FAWN: I think that's part of the American culture that they're raised in. And this is, this has been my, my, my pain points in an interracial family is this, because somehow they get more of one thing at some points than they do the other. And it's painful when you're the other. Anyway, so what did you have too much of and what did you have too little of?
[00:28:54] FAWN: Matt? 
[00:28:55] MATT: So when we last left our hero, he was in like third grade. Okay? So going forward in fourth grade, all of a sudden, not all of a sudden, but I was making deeper, more meaningful friendships. And so I would visit my friends or have my friends visit me, and in the process of doing that, and then I'd also like travel places on my bike.
[00:29:23] MATT: My bike was my big passport to freedom, and I would go out every Saturday and Sunday. Typically, I would be out of the house most of the day doing things on my bike. So chafed against it. And then high school, I really chafed against it and I was given a certain element, enough autonomy, but with a safety net.
[00:29:50] MATT: So for me, , and unfortunately this is something now that's like the mirror being held up to you where I, I think that a my way is the best way from childhood it's like I had this switch in my head and it really wasn't a switch, but it felt that way of having constant support and surrounded by family constantly to chafed against it, got freedom and got enough freedom to make me feel like I was free.
[00:30:23] MATT: And then, moving away from that and I went to college when I was 17 and I went, I was, I was away, but they paid for it. So there's this total like balance and so I, I stand in opposition to thinking it's, it's one from column A or one from column B. I think I had a mesh. 
[00:30:42] FAWN: Well, okay, you talk about connection and I think I have a different D definition of connection.
[00:30:49] FAWN: You say you had a, what'd you say? What was the connection like with your family? You said a deep connection. Did you say deep or was I thinking deep? You were thinking deep. What was the connection like with your family? Because I mean, 
[00:31:03] MATT: family dinner was five 30 every 
[00:31:05] FAWN: day. . See, those are logistics. 
[00:31:08] MATT: I know they're logistics, but that put us in the same room at the same time.
[00:31:12] MATT: No tv. 
[00:31:14] FAWN: Those are pure logistics. Those are rules. When I'm thinking of connection, I'm thinking of truly loving someone and feeling them right, and being there for them. Feeling a connection. Like you're not even in the same room. You're not even in the same part of the city, but you are still connected to them.
[00:31:34] FAWN: That there's that sense of love and respect. There's that sense of, unlimited love, like, right, but like, yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't 
[00:31:43] MATT: say there was, there was any 
[00:31:44] FAWN: of that really like Yeah, because there was no, for me, when I hear your stories, like your hair was too long and they, they did not like that.
[00:31:54] FAWN: They didn't hence the 
[00:31:55] MATT: chaffing in 
[00:31:55] FAWN: high school, but Yes. But see, the way you described it was that, The way I heard you, if I didn't know you, I would've thought, well he had a great family, like a typical American great family and you chafed against it cuz it was so great, but you chafed against it because they did not like who you were.
[00:32:15] FAWN: They did not like your long hair. They did not like the music. You didn't feel respected or 
[00:32:20] MATT: that choices that I made weren't respected. But by the same token, I didn't have that deep emotional connection that you're talking about. So I guess maybe I completely lacked the one, but I never felt the lack.
[00:32:34] FAWN: I think you had protection. 
[00:32:36] MATT: Yes. And certainly I did envy friends that I had who lived, our house was basically too big, was the problem, I thought. Uh, and so I envied my friends who lived in smaller houses, more on top of their parents, and they could have a social relationship as opposed to a, it's almost like a warden jailer, a warden felon relationship that I had with my parents.
[00:33:02] MATT: They were, they were the authority figures. 
[00:33:05] FAWN: I don't think it's really the size of the house that matters. I think it's the, the size of the heart that matters. I don't think that, I don't know. This is a really deep conversation that will probably take many episodes to talk about, but just to be brief about it, I think your sense of, uh, connection and protection, the definitions for them, for me, are so radically different.
[00:33:34] FAWN: Right. like you were protected and it's good and bad. Like you guys were protected. You didn't know about racism. You didn't know any Jewish people. You didn't or you didn't think you did. You know what I'm saying? Like I remember getting into a huge fight with your family when we first got married about racism, and they were so proud of the fact that you guys didn't know racism.
[00:33:57] FAWN: I'm like, you need to be aware of what's happening. And then your sister was so proud about saying that she doesn't see color. I'm like, whoa. So basically you don't wanna see my color, you don't wanna see who I am. You don't wanna see my traditions, you don't wanna see my culture.
[00:34:14] FAWN: You don't wanna see the way I look because to you it's not appealing. So you would not look at it that you don't see it, but you best believe you act on it. So anyway, so that was my fight. But then that brings up the sense of protection because they were, they are so proud about how they protected you guys from the world.
[00:34:39] FAWN: There's a definition for me of protection. I think that would be so radically different from maybe your perspective on protection. My parents didn't protect me from the stuff that happened in school. They didn't protect me from so many things. I had to basically raise myself.
[00:35:04] FAWN: They didn't protect me from the siblings that did and said horrible things because that's how they were raised . But I was. In the stage where I was like being the youngest in the family and then moving to another culture as the youngest in the family, I was more able to be plastic. Like I was more able to bend and stretch myself and become acclimated to something completely different than they were.
[00:35:33] FAWN: Do you understand what I'm saying? I do. Okay. It's hard. I'm sorry. I know I keep interrupting you and disagreeing with what you're saying based on your own history. I keep disagreeing with your story, but that's what happens when you're married. Like I have heard things for so long and I can, I can tell from a perspective of our friends listening, I'm like, oh wait, you guys, he did not have that kind of family.
[00:35:56] FAWN: Like you were not. They, they were, they 
[00:36:01] MATT: were great. They were wardens. Okay. And I said that I very clearly said that warden and prisoner on some level. And I, I broke free enough from it and gave myself en enough, uh, space. But things like, went away to college, but they paid for it. So there was just an incredible dichotomy through the whole thing.
[00:36:26] FAWN: Okay. So should we just go to another question? Sure. Like, but the, see, this is how it is. Like, based on how we were raised, based on the families we had, it sets up, sets us up for what kind of relationships that we enter and what kind of relationships we even have the capacity for based on all these things that we haven't really totally let ourselves feel.
[00:36:51] FAWN: Again, because we're so busy. We're so busy 
[00:36:55] MATT: being busy, 
[00:36:56] FAWN: we're busy, busy, busy. But also we so wanna get away from that and start a new life that we don't wanna revisit it in some cases, and in a lot of cases, we don't have the answers because it's like we don't know how our parents were raised. We don't know how our grandparents were raised.
[00:37:16] FAWN: What did they go through? We talked about this with Joey when we were baking bread last year, right? We don't know why people have certain actions, but there's a legitimate reason why people behave the way they do. There's a reason why they don't tell you things about family history. , they don't have the capacity to tell you because it was too painful.
[00:37:39] FAWN: Or if they speak it out loud, they can get killed. You're not allowed to say things right, 
[00:37:44] MATT: or it, it wasn't appropriate. It, it wasn't appropriate for the time or you will get killed or, yes, getting killed is certainly one thing. Or just not 
[00:37:55] FAWN: at the time. Say anything and your neighbors are listening, they will turn you in.
[00:37:59] FAWN: It's happened over and over again in so many different countries. Right, and I think it's happening now too, right? Ah, so anyway, , it's just, it's incredibly complicated, but looking at what kind of households did you have? Was your home open to people coming over? No. , 
[00:38:18] MATT: not really. 
[00:38:19] FAWN: See, mine was, and it wasn't like they, yeah, it was open, but only to whatever my parents thought is open for them.
[00:38:30] FAWN: So the relatives would come and then when they would leave, My God, the terrible things they would say about these family members. Or like if I had a friend come over and if their shoes weren't clean enough, they would tell me, you're not allowed to hang out with this person because their shoes were dirty.
[00:38:50] FAWN: Ouch. But do you know what I'm saying? I do. So it was very closed. I do. And which explains our family life now, cuz I'm like, everybody come over to our house, but please take off your shoes. . . Not for that reason though. I just don't like the, the dirtiness of the street entering into our home and don't leave it outside.
[00:39:10] FAWN: Right. That's a different issue. We take showers around nighttime so that way we don't get the bed sturdy. Well, you know, a lot of cultures, they have indoor clothes and outdoor clothes for that reason. Yeah. I wanna go to bed clean. I wanna wash off the day in a spiritual sense and in a physical sense. . Do you know what I'm saying?
[00:39:33] FAWN: So anyway, how about you? So closed closed, not a lot of friends coming and going out. 
[00:39:39] MATT: Yeah. Honestly, um, uh, somebody coming over was a fairly singular event growing up. 
[00:39:46] FAWN: I remember humming to your house for the first time. It was very, I, I mean, I went to my acupuncturist and he gave me these really strong kava, kava, what it was called.
[00:39:58] FAWN: But he gave me the purest one, and I took so much that it numbed my tongue. It was supposed to relax my nerves, and it didn't help , 
[00:40:08] MATT: right? Because everything was official and formal at the Anderson house. Yeah. And also the fact that I foolishly dragged you over to my buddy's house thinking it might loosen you up a tad.
[00:40:18] MATT: And it totally didn't. 
[00:40:20] FAWN: No, it was, it was not okay. It was not okay. And it was like, okay, everybody sit here now. Yes. And so we sat in the living room across from one another. Okay. Now we're gonna have these assigned questions that we're gonna ask. What books have you been reading? It's rehearsed. It was very rehearsed.
[00:40:39] FAWN: And that's, that's where they live. But it was like, what books are you reading? I'm you, and thanks Matt for Prepare . Matt did not prepare me for any of this. I didn't know how it was gonna be. So when I was asked, what books are you reading? I told them what I was reading and immediately your dad scoffed at it.
[00:41:03] FAWN: You know, I'm like, Wow. 
[00:41:06] MATT: Well he is the poster child for my way is the 
[00:41:08] FAWN: best way. And I'm sorry, but those books are that I was reading were pretty heady like, what is your problem man? But like, and then, okay, now we're gonna get up and have hors d'oeuvres over here and now we're gonna go have dinner. And God forbid you take the plate and you pass it to the right instead of the left.
[00:41:26] FAWN: Well that's 
[00:41:26] MATT: just not how it's done. 
[00:41:28] FAWN: Stop it, Matt. I'm getting angrified all over again. Like rage, . God. And I'm not saying I'm raging because this was the custom in your home. I'm raging because you didn't tell me and then that's 
[00:41:41] MATT: not how I 
[00:41:42] FAWN: chose to live. But then Matt, you are like, of course we passed to the right.
[00:41:48] FAWN: I'm like, no, I believe 
[00:41:49] MATT: I said it at the time we passed to the right here, 
[00:41:52] FAWN: babe. Well you should have warned me. Well, because I mean, I don't, don't think about these things. It was bad. It was ugly. It got ugly just because I passed the potatoes to the left. Well, yeah. Gees, I don't wanna talk about it.
[00:42:05] FAWN: I'm really angry right now, . Anyway. What, what are the other questions we had? What was it? Do you need more connection or protection right now? 
[00:42:14] MATT: Right now. Now it feels like I need protection from you. My goodness. Yeah, you 
[00:42:18] FAWN: do. , so I'm just saying. Oh yeah, you do. Growing up, like growing up, growing up from coming, having come out of growing up, do you feel like you're looking for more connection or protection?
[00:42:37] FAWN: Connection? I think, um, what's the, what's I'm, and I'm definitely looking for both connection and protection, because I, yes. You said 
[00:42:47] MATT: more, you gotta split the hair. No, they're, yes, 
[00:42:49] FAWN: you do. For me, for me, they're equivalent for me. Having connection is my protection because I didn't have anyone sticking up for me growing up.
[00:42:57] FAWN: It was me by myself and I needed protection. So now I'm seeking protection inside of a community. So for me it's equivalent. I need both. My heart needs protection, my just physical body. I feel like I need protection cuz I've, I've seen a lot of the stuff that I saw as a child that I continue to see now.
[00:43:22] FAWN: I ignored as a child. Like I just thought it was like, whatever, this is how life is. But I'm like, whoa, that was major racism thrown at me. You know what I mean? That was not okay. It was just normal. Like, I didn't think about it. I just kept moving. Mm-hmm. . But now I'm like, okay, I, I get what happens. How about you?
[00:43:40] FAWN: Do you need more connection or protection? Allegra connection. Yeah. Okay. 
[00:43:47] FAWN: What do you expect from a relationship? And by relationship, I mean friendship. It's, it's all the same for me. It really is. Uh, well, I think that all, all relationships are pretty much, it's the same values all across the board. Some relationships require other physical things that are involved, like sex , but a relationship is basically a heart to heart communication or heart to heart connection.
[00:44:17] FAWN: So what do you expect out of a, a relationship? I expect the person to be truthful. These are my expectations. Mm-hmm. , and I'm not saying that I'm looking at everyone demanding that, but in my heart, that's what I'm really looking for. Like my bestie that I, I feel comfortable hanging with. I want honesty. I want, I don't want that one upness that people have, like, they are trying to compete against you.
[00:44:49] FAWN: Right. Or they think they're higher than you, or you're lower than them. That really bugs me because I, you know, I, right. I don't, I don't play like that. a sense of, compassion. And I expect the person to be smart. Smart as in, as in I want them to know about different countries and different cultures.
[00:45:11] FAWN: And if they don't be open to learning and not be racist. . And, and that's it. A, a sense of respect is what I expect. Allegra, how about you? Um, I'm not sure. Well, it's good to know what you want. It's good to know what you're thinking, like what your heart wants. So that way you attract it. Why don't you think about it?
[00:45:45] FAWN: We'll go to Matt, dad. 
[00:45:48] MATT: I just think as far as what I look for in like friendships or quote unquote relationships is, um, do we share, you know, we share, we pool our knowledge, we pool our resources, we pool our experiences, and we share them. Having a giggle. Because that's important to me. And then also ha going on adventures, whatever that looks like.
[00:46:14] MATT: And when I'm talking about relationships, now I'm thinking about, you know, everything from work relationships to personal friendships to relationships with neighbors. You know, these are the things I'm looking for. And so, you know, sharing those things that, that give me joy, whether or not you could give two rats about it, I think is important.
[00:46:35] MATT: And then sharing and then, um, yeah, having a giggle and adventures for sure. 
[00:46:42] FAWN: How about you Allegra? Well, I guess I do kind of think of it as like someone to adventure with, but someone to also like, rely on and like, they can also rely on you. And not only that, but also like if you both collectively hate someone instead of just suppressing like, oh yeah, that person is fine.
[00:47:02] FAWN: You're just like, ah, look at this person. Low. They really need to quit being so rude or something like that. I don't know. Yeah, I, I guess that, that is the community, right? Like you have a sense of protection in numbers, right? 
[00:47:19] MATT: And, and that's just it. That's not something that I put that, I don't put that on my relationships.
[00:47:26] MATT: I have the relationships which I do feel protected inside of, and I have, but I don't go into it with that expectation because I'll be let down and I don't 
[00:47:36] FAWN: like being let down. But here's, here's my point. It's please allow yourself to, to discuss with your own self what you would like. It's not what you expect of others, but just sitting down and going, you know what, I want some tiramisu for lunch today.
[00:47:57] FAWN: It's not that I'm going to demand for tiramisu to be lunch for today, but it's like I'm just being honest with myself and saying, I want tiramisu . It's like that, that song Munch. Munch. I don't want no crunch. I don't want no lunch. All I want is Chip. All I want is potato chip. Potato chip. Do you know what I'm saying?
[00:48:17] FAWN: So you're, it's like you're afraid to explore in your own psyche what you would want, because you're saying, well, I don't wanna demand that. I'm not saying, what do you demand of a relationship? I'm, I'm asking, what do you expect? Like, what do you want? Maybe I wasn't clear with my question. What do you want?
[00:48:40] FAWN: What? What do you want out of a relationship, just in your own 
[00:48:44] MATT: private self? When I think about relationships, I think about the start. I don't think about where it goes because that's an Indetermined future, and we'll see where that goes. And that can be influenced on both sides. And, and we learn. I learn certainly how to support people and what level of support I can expect from people in the process of discovering each other, which is part of a relationship.
[00:49:11] FAWN: So all this is to say, these are conversations with ourselves. We're not going out and demanding anything of anyone else. What I'm saying is just think about your own personal history and how it started. There's a reason why our families behave the way they do, and instead of feeling hurt by it, I mean this is what I had to do ever since I was very little.
[00:49:39] FAWN: I would see the bad behavior even when I was in diapers I remember looking out at them and going, wow, these people are messed up. I don't wanna do that. and then I would just look at them and go, why are they doing that? Why are they saying that? And so I realized it's like I had my own psychology master's program growing up with my family because I didn't blame them for anything.
[00:50:07] FAWN: I watched them and I realized why they behaved a certain way. I realized why they said the mean things about the relatives they're, they're supposedly loving. And I realized, wow, it's really because they're not comfortable with their own selves, that they're mad at themselves, that they're in pain and they can't express that pain.
[00:50:33] FAWN: So all they do is lash out and hurt others because they don't know how to express their own selves. and to their own selves, think about what they want and what they've been through, and like have the luxury or the space to understand what happened to them , and how their actions are affecting other people.
[00:50:56] FAWN: And so I think in order to really understand the art of friendship and in order to create a healthier society, we need to create that sense of luxury that space for ourselves to get to know ourselves. Like, who are you? Like I, one day sat down and I thought to myself, yeah, I'm all by myself.
[00:51:20] FAWN: I was by myself a lot. You know, I was always learning on my own. I taught myself how to swim. I taught myself how to ride a bike. I taught myself everything with school. . My teachers were horrible . I had to figure it out on my own and, and I just thought, you know, I'm enjoying my own company because I got to know myself.
[00:51:45] FAWN: I'm like, I can have fun in a trash can. That's me, . I am having the best time with myself. . I took myself when I was in my twenties, I went out on dates by myself. I got myself concert tickets, and I would go to concerts by myself, like, I'm gonna take myself out on a date. I had a neighbor who would buy herself flowers.
[00:52:04] FAWN: I'm like, ah, I, I want some flowers too. I bought myself flowers and I felt great. You know, I put on music and I cried to myself cuz I listened to myself in my own woes, you know? I was like, woe is me. And I had a great time crying, I didn't burden anybody else with it. I took it out of myself enough so that when I have friends to talk to about my woes, it's not as heavy because I already took away, I washed away all the heaviness so that I could talk about it more like a lesson or more like a story, a movie.
[00:52:45] FAWN: You know what I'm saying? I do. So that was the whole point of today's episode is self-awareness. Can you have fun in a trashcan? I can have a party all to myself. Thank you,
[00:53:03] FAWN: And that's it. Do you have anything else to add, guys? Every time we, I, every time I press stop on the record, Matt's like, you didn't let me say this 
[00:53:15] MATT: today. I am good. I am delightful, but good. 
[00:53:19] FAWN: Alright. Is there anything you wanna add? Allegra? No thanks. All right. Talk to you guys in a few days. Remember a, um, a very special guest is coming.
[00:53:31] FAWN: I'm so excited. Veda Austin. Look her up. V e d a. First name. Last name is Austin. A u s oh oh. Is it t i n or Ian? 
[00:53:44] MATT: Always a good question. She's a kiwi. 
[00:53:47] FAWN: She's from New Zealand. She communicates with water guys. Oh my god, she's amazing. Alright, , love you guys. We will talk to you soon. Again, you can reach out to us.
[00:53:56] FAWN: Go to our website, our friendly world Try to download some episodes. Please tell other people to download. Help us with our numbers. Help us really, really get out there. Thank you everyone around the world for listening. We love you. Very nice. Talk to you soon. Be well. Bye.