Jan. 3, 2022

The Root of the Matter with Joseph Krikorian

The Root of the Matter with Joseph Krikorian

to contribute to our podcast, you can buy us "a cup of coffee" by leaving us a little something, or a big something ;) here:  buymeacoffee.com/friendlyspace
We welcome our friend Joseph Krikorian as we explore the Armenian culture and history.
We're going to begin the root of the matter as we delve into coming from somewhere else and the ways of having to make our way in the world, all the while, carrying with us, all the emotions, the history, our stories, and our mapping out and figuring out a brave new one, a brave new world that is. Sometimes this is hard to do, especially with the trail of the people who came before us. Like our ancestors, grandparents, great-grandparents sometimes even parents, who may not have the stories or they do have the stories, but they're not passed down to us; all the why's, the how's and when's like, why did this happen? Not even knowing that we should be asking these questions because we have no idea, what happened in the past. What makes someone behave the way they do? What makes our household our home, have a certain vibe, or like a certain history?
to reach Joey:https://kryptontoalderaan.podbean.com/

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to contribute to our podcast, you can buy us "a cup of coffee" by leaving us a little something, or a big something ;) here:  buymeacoffee.com/friendlyspace

We welcome our friend Joseph Krikorian as we explore the Armenian culture and history.

We're going to begin the root of the matter as we delve into coming from somewhere else and the ways of having to make our way in the world, all the while, carrying with us, all the emotions, the history, our stories, and our mapping out and figuring out a brave new one, a brave new world that is. Sometimes this is hard to do, especially with the trail of the people who came before us. Like our ancestors, grandparents, great-grandparents sometimes even parents, who may not have the stories or they do have the stories, but they're not passed down to us; all the why's, the how's and when's like, why did this happen? Not even knowing that we should be asking these questions because we have no idea, what happened in the past. What makes someone behave the way they do? What makes our household our home, have a certain vibe, or like a certain history?

to reach Joey:






[00:00:00] Fawn: Are we ever going to get a new table? I feel like I got this table for us and I said, we'll have it forever, honey. But we're sitting, we got forever tables in the other room. Well, times were really tough and every dollar counted. And once we started to start to begin to get back on our feet, I saw it as a toddler picnic table.

I'm like, honey, we have to get it with an umbrella with an umbrella and chairs. And it was like under a hundred dollars, but that was like to us a thousand dollars. And we got it. And to this day we're still sitting and the kids are now taller than I am. And we're still sitting at the

[00:00:41] Joey: yeah, no, I'm looking at the perspective of Matt sitting at my knee.


[00:00:46] Fawn: Yeah. Look at that. Look at that.

[00:00:49] Matt: I'm not sitting in one of the normal chairs I have with there's an Ottoman right here.

[00:00:53] Fawn: So God, if you're listening to me, please help help us move the real table. I know, but nevermind. Anyway, welcome. Welcome back. Welcome back to our friendly world, everybody. So today, today, this show is really important to me because of the bond that I made with our very special guest who's here. Don't say anything yet. He's here. He's listening to us right now.

, I'm so excited, but there's so much to get into. Literally like my brain has so many asides. Like I want to talk about this and that bear with me. I hope I don't go all over the place. I hope that I sound coherent. We're going to begin the root of the matter as we delve into coming from somewhere else and the ways of having to make our way in the world, all the while, carrying with us, all the emotions, the history, our stories, and our mapping out and figuring out a brave new one, a brave new world that is. Sometimes this is hard to do, especially with the trail of the people who came before us. Like our ancestors, grandparents, great-grandparents sometimes even parents, who may not have the stories or they do have the stories, but they're not passed down to us; all the why's, the how's and when's like, why did this happen? Not even knowing that we should be asking these questions because we have no idea the, what happened in the past. What makes someone behave the way they do? What makes our household our home, have a certain vibe or like a certain history?

Like we just go along with things, especially when we're children, because I mean, we just go along with it. What's normal. I mean, everything is so new when you're born. So it's not. Well, I feel like our kids did. So maybe other kids do too. Like our babies, I feel like they questioned everything from the beginning.

Like they came in, they were like ambassadors of love. And they were like, what the heck is this? No, this has got to go. You know, like they just feel like we don't ask the questions because we don't even know because there's so much new coming at us. We're just trying to survive. And so today this is what I want to talk about.

And the thing is that since we may not have the stories that we can turn to, what we can do, is turn to our senses, especially, I think, our sense of taste and smell. That's where a lot of important information that's encoded in our lives comes through, like through food, through certain ceremonies that you may not think are even related to your culture.

There are clues hidden in everything. And once we sit around the table and break bread and meet new people, we can make sense of where we all came from. Even if you think, well, I came from the United States. I've been here, my people have always been here. Well, no, they haven't. Um, you know what I mean, Matt?


[00:04:05] Matt: absolutely. Once upon a time there was a land bridge between Asia and north America. So yeah, people went across there. I mean, if,

[00:04:11] Fawn: if you want to talk about food, say if you go far enough back, uh, back. The almond is not even a nut. It's a fruit and it's two fruits coming together with actually our very special friend who's with us can probably explain all this, but like the mountains came crashing together and it created the almond.

Anyway, we'll talk about that on another show, which is what I used to talk about on the faith, in a seed, my cooking show. Anyway, guys, I have some questions for today before I introduce you to our beautiful friend. One is memories and food. Let me go back, like, let me go back to the first question I have is how do we express being anything?

How do we express ourselves? How do we express being Armenian? How do we express being Persian, being American? You know, you fill in the blank. How do you express who you are, Matt, like where you come from? How do we express that culture? How do we express ourselves? I want to talk about memories and food, things maybe we can't express with words, come to a conversation and translation of its own around the table through generations. You have feelings like, I remember watching that movie "Like Water for Chocolate.". If any of you saw that, the main character, every emotion she has as she's cooking is actually being translated and embedded right into the food.

So when she's crying and upset and she's a great cook. But she's preparing a meal as she's crying and the food is so beautiful and delicious. And as she serves it to the family, that the family has no idea what this character has been going through. But she was in the kitchen alone. She was preparing and her emotions were out.

And as the family is sitting around the table, eating this delicious food, they all start weeping feeling her tears that went into the food. Do you understand what I'm saying? And, and that's how I feel about food also. So it's the, it's like the movie, "Like Water for Chocolate." That was the name of the movie.Did I already mention that?

[00:06:33] Matt: You did.

[00:06:33] Fawn: Okay. So it's like that. That's, where I want to go today and taking our emotions, but really exploring our history. And especially today, I want to talk about. The Armenian culture and the Armenian history to some extent. Obviously we're still trying to learn. We don't know everything.

We're just, you know, we, I feel like, what do you say Matt? History is written by

[00:07:01] Matt: history is written by the winners.

[00:07:03] Fawn: History is written by usually the ones who are the bullies that win the fight. Right, right. So you don't necessarily have all the information, especially when you come from the other side of it and you have parents and great-grandparents who went through atrocious, horrible nightmares that they don't ever want to talk about again.

So the next generation has no clue what's happened. Right. And then they don't know how to communicate with their kids. And that's kind of where I came from. Like my parents. I mean, I barely spoke the same language. Now I feel like I've totally lost my language because we didn't really speak that much.

And I was raised in a completely different culture that they were raised in. Even my sisters, I was the youngest and I just adapted because we moved when I was very little. And so it was a completely different life. Anyway. Those are some questions I have. And what makes us come together at the table? It's usually hunger loneliness slash companionship, right? Come from exile, we get together at a table for a celebration for conversation, for safety, for learning new things, for brainstorming. I've noticed a lot of over the last couple of decades; it's the hip thing or it's a mandatory thing to have a meeting at the office over lunch.

Which by the way, I don't agree with, I feel like food is so sacred; that sacred space to nourish myself. Like I may not have the space or the capacity to keep going over lunch to talk about business, but it's interesting how businesses have also, knowingly or not knowingly come to the table to bring about conversation.

The table is really important. Much like our little toddler table over here that has been our office for our podcasts and everything else. So anyway, I do have some other questions, but now, oh, Guys, I want to introduce you to a new friend of yours. I have a new friend for you out there. A new friend to introduce you to his name is Joseph Krikorian.

We call him Joey. He is really interesting. He's totally into SciFi. He's a scientist. Did you know that? I told you that. Yeah, he's a scientist. He grew up in New York, just outside of New York will tell you, he'll tell you all about it, but he has a really interesting story, a really interesting background.

He's a geologist. There's so much about him. He has so many facets that are so rich and amazing. We met over zoom once again, one of my dear friends who I consider like family. But I haven't actually met in person yet because we met over the pandemic. We were talking in a group one day before the meeting started, cause you know, we usually have meetings about podcasting and you know, all these techniques and things we need to be up on. We were all from different places and different races.

And so we started talking about racism. And then of course, I don't know how it happened, but we veered towards food and we had the best conversation about racism and food and racism and tools in the kitchen. Really interesting talk, but then I was so delighted, because I've been wanting to reach out to Joey and I've put it out there, like, Hey, can we have a zoom here?

And there? Like, I've, I've, I've posed this question to a few people. And then Joey sends me a note on the side saying, Hey, can we talk about the Armenian and Persian recipes together? I'm like, heck yes. So we had a meeting and viola, here we are. Everybody. Please meet our friend, Joey, your new friend, Joey, Joey.


[00:11:08] Joey: Thank you so much. What a great introduction. Yes, I am. Hello everyone. I'm your new friend. Yeah. As Fawn said, I'm Joey Krikorian, as you could tell, probably by the last name or hopefully now you're learning that last name is Armenian and yeah, I feel like I have so much to say already, based on your introduction Fawn,

[00:11:32] Fawn: I have more to add you guys.

I forgot to mention he's also, well, I did kind of mention he's also a podcaster I'm not a Spotify geek, but can you, Matt, describe his podcast.

[00:11:44] Matt: His podcast is called Krypton to Alderaan, which kind of runs an interesting gamut because of course, Krypton is the home of Superman and Superman was the first superhero.

God, I could geek out on this all day, but I'm going to try and be brief. And Alderon is of course where princess Leia Organa was raised and star wars and yeah, spoiler empire blows it up.

[00:12:07] Joey: So. on a serious note, a very fitting sort of relation to the conversation we're going to have today, the empire Alderon blowing it up, that kind of thing, I

[00:12:20] Fawn: think, which leads us to the root of the matter, Joey.

[00:12:25] Joey: Yes.

[00:12:26] Fawn: How certain cultures are completely destroyed by certain people. And how do you pick up and how do you carry on family? How do you carry on the stories? Joey? I know that, um, first of all, rewind for those friends that want to know more about Joey. His link is right there under this show, on the website.

So go to that because there is a, uh, Joseph Krikorian out there. There's a few.

[00:13:00] Joey: Right. The big one is an Armenian pop star. Oh dear. So good luck. It's just fun to watch, you know what I recommend, like following that link to me, but I also recommend following a link to him on his music videos, listen to some of his music.

[00:13:18] Fawn: Exactly. Um, so going back now, I know that you have your, your, your story is quite beautiful. I know that you were born in New York. Uh, was it the Bronx you're from the Bronx?

[00:13:34] Joey: Well, I was born in the Bronx. I think that was kind of like a, an emergency stop between where my parents live and where my grandparents live.

So I think they were, uh, either it was an emergency stop or that's where they agreed to meet sort of in the middle, uh, to have me be born.

[00:13:58] Fawn: Oh, my God, Joey, that's a perfect term for it. Emergency stop. My family also had some emergency spots stops or spots. So I know that your great grandparents escaped Armenia and Turkey.

Yep. And that your great grandfather married your great grandmother who was Italian. So an Armenian and Italian. When we were having a conversation, it was hard to put all the pieces together.

We don't have all the pieces. We don't know exactly what happened. All we know is that these parents, grandparents, great-grandparents just, wouldn't speak about anything. And I wonder is it because it's so painful to talk about and you just want to forget about it? Is it because you want your children to just acclimate to this new place and blend in?

[00:14:56] Matt: Do you want to spare

them the pain

[00:14:58] Fawn: you, I mean, why do you think that they don't talk? People don't talk. And that's my main thing. Like Matt, Matt refuses to talk about certain painful things. And then I do, and then we ended up having a fight. Maybe that's it. You have fights. Right. But it's all good. A fight is good at the table because it's spirited conversation.

Because as long as you have respect, it's okay to fight. We need to figure it out and it's emotional. Voices may get very loud. It's okay. Because we love each other. And we're going to, we're going to find out, we need to find out our background anyway, back to you, Joey, please. I like how you described everything.

So tell me the whole story with your great-grandfather, whatever you can remember.

[00:15:50] Joey: My great grandparents, like you said, fled the Armenian genocide and came to America

[00:15:56] Fawn: and The death march. They actually lived through the death March. They

[00:16:01] Joey: survived. Yes. See that those are points in history that I don't know.

And no one ever talked about. So I don't know exactly where they were, you know exactly what part of the, uh, exactly where in the situation they were in, but they managed to get out and managed to get here. And so they had go ahead.

[00:16:22] Fawn: I'm sorry. Can I interject, first of all, Armenia is I believe the oldest country in the.

Now let's take a look at that. Yeah. And the richness of everything that comes with a culture . That's amazing. And it's, and it's, it, it makes me really sad that we don't know anything.

[00:16:45] Joey: Yeah. I that's a whole other sort of branch of this conversation is that if people, when people listened to this podcast for probably, or for maybe a significant amount of them, this is the first time they're hearing of the Armenian genocide or the extent to which it took place.

You know, it's not taught in schools up until this year, it was not recognized as a genocide on the federal level. You know, that's something that happened this year. It was recognized on the state level in many states. So over a hundred years of not recognition from this country that it actually happened.

So it's really hard to, it's hard to, I don't know, gain traction, talking about that kind of thing with people, because they've never heard of it, you know, how could it be that they never heard of something that horrible happening and that, you know, the country that they live in has never recognized it.

And for many Armenians who fled here for refuge, having living then in a country that refused to recognize it for various reasons, I can't imagine the toll that that had on people. And so, yeah, it's just crazy, and it's not something a lot of people have heard of.

[00:18:08] Fawn: I mean, we talk about this all the time in our home, because there are so many cultures that have also gone through this, but we can't talk about it sometimes because I mean, just speaking about what happened with the Armenian people, you can end up dead. So do your own research out there, friends, um, figure it out because to this day we seriously can't say anything without having serious consequences.

[00:18:41] Joey: Um, yeah. I, I would recommend for anyone listening that wants to know more, I mean, there's ample research. The great thing is that, uh, you know, we can Google anything now, but if you're wanting to read a wonderful book that goes through personal and, event history, it's called"A Hundred Year Walk" by Dawn Anahid MacKeen. It's a wonderful book. She goes, and retraces her grandfather's steps, who survived the death March and kept a journal. And so she finds his journals in, you know, they live in LA. Now she and her family live in LA. She finds her father's your grandfather's journals. And she goes over there and retraces his steps through, from beginning to end. So it's really incredible book.

And it's filled with, like I said, personal and, and world history. And it's really interesting read.

[00:19:39] Fawn: So what made you suddenly, I feel like it was a set, was it a sudden thing, Joey, like trying to figure out what exactly happened and where you came from and how did that happen for you and when did it happened?

[00:19:55] Joey: That's a great question. I probably can't put my finger on exactly when it happened, but like we were saying, like you were saying earlier, for a certain amount of generations afterwards, people don't want to talk about the atrocities that were committed against them. So I didn't know my great grandparents.

They had several children. One of them was my grandfather and I knew him and I spent a lot of time growing up with my grandmother. That's the grandfather that was Armenian that married my Italian grandmother. So I spent a lot of time of my childhood with them. There was never any Armenian talked about, you know, I knew our last name was Armenian.

I knew that, there was the Armenian genocide, that kind of thing was discussed a little bit, but we never had any other conversations about the culture or the food. We never had Armenian food, whatever that might be. We never had any of that. It was all the Italian stuff, which was great. Don't get me wrong.

I loved it. Um, but I didn't know what I was missing. You know, so my grandfather died when I was 20. And after that, I just got into wanting to understand where my ancestors came from. Like I said, I was raised by these two people. So I identify heavily with those two with the Italian and Armenian side of my family.

So after he died, I think I really got into researching and got and started to understand sort of what a,

what a.

Ah, what's the right word started to understand that it was lacking that I didn't ask him questions before, you know, when I had the chance. And I just didn't understand, like you were saying earlier, I didn't understand that I showed, I was a teenager and a 20 year old and caught up in my own world, but looking back, obviously we all look back and wish we could have done stuff differently.

I just wish I could have gotten that personal experience. It's why I really love that book I mentioned earlier because she actually gets that and she has like the written documentation of it. But I would say that that's probably when I really started diving into it. And that opened the door to all the genealogy stuff.

And fortunately, with the Italian side of things, it's easy. It's easier to trace back, right. Just from a desktop armchair. You know, family genealogical research with the Armenian stuff, you just hit a wall. I mean, you can't trace it any further back than when they got here. Uh, you know, and the, the people that were left, the very few Armenians that were left after world war one, scattered or during world war one, scattered.

And so you, it's impossible to track down anybody you might've been related to, you know, they changed their names. So it's difficult to do the research, but that's my long-winded way of saying probably when I was 20.

[00:23:11] Fawn: Yeah. I feel like when it's okay. I mean, I feel like I say, it's okay. Trying to express to you that it's never too late.

And I feel like at that time where you became hyper aware of your background and your heritage, it was most likely your grandfather actually still talking to you and. Nothing like the perfect time is the perfect time is now to study and to learn because I do believe that the answers are there. I do believe that they are encoded in everything.

And so which leads me to food because as we were talking about all this, it felt very familiar to me also, coming from being Persian Persians and Armenians are very close and our language is almost the same. If I dare say that I could be wrong, but there's so many words that are similar many words and our food is very similar and growing up, I always heard Armenian this Armenian that in such a lovely

way like, oh, they're Armenian. It felt like a brotherhood sisterhood to me, just being an ignorant child, not knowing what's happening. I just, you know, you would hear about this other culture, but it felt like, oh, our brothers and sisters over here, you know, like, oh, that's a slight variation with the Armenian dish over here, as opposed to the slight variation of the same dish with the Persians over here.

And so when we bonded over food and spices and scents, I was like, yay. And it's so funny because you are, how do I say this? You know, you're living in the state, above our heads. And just, you know, over the border, in Wyoming, you are like, you would think that you're totally Caucasian, but the S the instant that I saw you, I was like, that's my family right there.

I didn't know your background, Joey. I really didn't. I didn't know anything about you, but I felt the sense of family. Like, I, I always tell Matt, like, when I was really little, I could spot someone who was Persian from Iran. This is way before, um, there were a lot of Persians. In the United States, but I could spot them at five years old from three blocks away.

And I would start yelling at them, hello, in Farsi. And I could see them tensing up because they wanted to hide their culture. They wanted to hide who they were for survival reasons. Right. Cause you know, the middle east, like all the cultures in the middle east seem to be always the bad guys. And especially in the west, you don't ...to survive.

You just don't want to be seen as anything. You just want to blend it. And here I am five years old in Farsi saying, hello, you know? And then when they would get closer, they would kind of nod to me that gangster nod. I shouldn't say gangster, but like they would like not to be like, yes. Hello.

What, uh, okay. A long-winded way of saying I recognized you Joey from, from far away through zoom. I knew there was a connection.

[00:26:52] Joey: That's great. I love that. And I should say, I am like very Caucasian. I'm very white. So it's, you know, uh, I don't know. It it's like, I'm very white. I'm trying to look into my Armenian and my middle Eastern roots.

So I, you know, y'all talk a lot of about racism on this race, on this show and racism subsequently, but, uh, I guess I just wanna, I don't know. I guess I just want to put that out there. Like, I'm trying to understand my ancestors' culture and the culture of the middle east and, and the Persian culture and all of it as this, you know, I don't know, white guy in Wyoming, so yeah, just trying to understand all of it and I appreciate, and I'm very happy that you recognize me as that, Fawn.

[00:27:43] Fawn: Thank you. And I just want to preface, I also want to say that, I, I hope I'm, I'm sure I sound terrible. Matt is always pointing out that I sound racist. Cause I'm like that white guy, the white guy, you know, I shouldn't, you know, I'm not please understand. I'm not disrespecting, I'm not trying to disrespect anybody.

I'm just saying, I have felt so shut away and ignored that. All of a sudden, I, I woke up to like saying, Hey, you know, I, well, you're still

[00:28:16] Matt: that five-year-old kid who wants to say hello, five blocks away. I want

[00:28:20] Fawn: to be recognized. I want to be seen also. And I, you know, I've always been ignored, so I'm like, hello.

Please know that I have love for it comes from love, but it's also, yeah, it is that five year old in me that, Hey,

[00:28:39] Matt: I completely get it. Now, if I could just interject for a moment, um, for our readers who are our listeners readers, our listeners who, don't have access to a map at this current point, I will tell you currently Iran and Armenia border each other.

So it's kind of no surprise. And if you take a look at Iraq, being the cradle of quote unquote, cradle of civilization, whatever that means, but if all culture started there and spread out, well, guess what, it's going to go through Iran. And then immediately to Armenia,

[00:29:11] Fawn: it started with Armenia. Armenia is actually the cradle of civilization and banner.

They are the ones by the way, which leads us to make sure you stick around for the end of the show. We have surprise for you, um, So Joey, where do we go from here? As we started to talk, you know, during our first one-on-one friendship talk immediately, we had one thing in common and it was a spice.

Sumac (Fawn pronounces it as So MOG, I call it sumac (SOMOG)

[00:29:44] Matt: you mean sumac? (Matt over emphasizes the American pronunciation) ).

[00:29:48] Fawn: () Yes. So how do you use that spice? First of all, Matt, how do you in American terms, describe sumac. (SO MOG as Fawn pronounces it the Farsi way)

[00:29:58] Matt: it's this almost powdery, not really powdery. It's a little moist, but powdery, grainy, it's magenta, and it tastes like lemon.

[00:30:07] Fawn: And it is the most amazing flavor, but Joey, I can only use it raw.

Persians, put it over a rice or over their, whatever proteins they're eating. What do you do with it?

[00:30:22] Joey: So I just got these spices, these like different Armenian Persian that, you know, that, that set of spices several months ago. Um, I got the collection. Yes. And they're beautiful. It's really like a pieces of artwork up on the spice rack, but I have, I got them and I have a Lebanese friend who's a chef and I communicated with her and she taught me how to use them. And so I've been using sumac Sumach on basically anything that lemon with it. I mean, well, first of all, let me say, I don't want to curse on your show, but I put that S on everything. I have fallen in love with that spice.

And so I use it a lot and I certainly don't have enough. I need like a, like a gallon Mason jar full of it, but this right here,

[00:31:27] Fawn: this way, every time. Well, when we used to have company over, this is what we would do. They, first of all, when company comes over to our home, they have to go through the heart forest, which those of you who have listened to our show know that when you come into our home, all the places we've lived, we create a heart forest . There are these cut-out heart shapes. They hang from from the ceiling. So as you come into our home, your forehead is kissed over and over by hearts. Like your head. You have to go through a forest of hearts and then we make you get into our kitchen after you've met the whole family, and we've given you drinks and food while you're still standing, by the way, first 30 seconds, then we open up all our spices and we were like, sniff this smell.

So this is our big, I don't know how many ounces. It's

[00:32:25] Joey: that said court size.

[00:32:26] Fawn: It's a big Mason jar of some Sumac. It's one of the things we have people smell and we never let it get low. Never. No, I don't think Joey.

[00:32:37] Joey: Love it. Yeah.

[00:32:38] Fawn: Oh my God. Oh dear. Here's the other one?

[00:32:43] Joey: Those figs.

[00:32:44] Fawn: No, we have those too.

That's another jar, but

[00:32:49] Joey: here are the figs, but

[00:32:50] Fawn: yeah. Look at this. These, can you see that they're dried lines, but they're special guidelines and the scent of a dried lime in a big jar like this, or, or any bag it is beautiful.

[00:33:07] Matt: It smells like summertime to me because it's lime. So it's feels, it evokes a lot of like lemon lime kind of, uh, aesthetic to me personally.

[00:33:15] Fawn: But see, that's interesting for you it's that. For me, it's all seasons, but I think. If mostly, if I were to put a season on it, it would be winter because we put it into our stews. Like you take three or four limes and he just put it in the stew and you let it get softened. And then, and then the beautiful black liquid that will come out of it.

Oh my God.

[00:33:41] Matt: What's weird is so you makea stew. So you make a stew yes, of course. Cause I make stews know my wife makes the stews, but day one, you're like, I can't tell it's there. And then it goes in the fridge comes back out day two there's some going on, but I'm not sure. Day three. Oh, it's right there. And you can't get enough of it, but it literally feels to me like it takes three days for it really to get in there.

[00:34:07] Fawn: So these spices are not only linked to our heritage, but are family members right here. So not only do they have to meet our children and you know our home, but let us introduce you to our spice. You know, our, it's not a spice rack. It's a wall. Yeah.

[00:34:23] Joey: I love that. I love that. And maybe I will adopt. Wow.

That's really impressive. Yeah.

[00:34:30] Fawn: And we're in a rental. So wait until we have a home once again, please God.

[00:34:37] Joey: Where do you get those? Do y'all have. Like a shop down there that where you can get that.

[00:34:43] Fawn: Okay. So when we first met and we were having our friendly conversation, I was telling him the story about how I went when Matt and I got married, we moved to, uh, you know, we moved away far away and we were in this tiny little town kind of in the middle of nowhere on the tip of the continent.

And there was this, there was this, what do you call those stores that sell kitchen appliances, the fancy ones,

[00:35:12] Matt: kitchen stores,

[00:35:14] Fawn: you know, culinary. Culenary So I was standing there and it's interesting that they even had this book there, but there was a, a Persian book there, a Persian cookbook, and I opened it up and I started to cry and I'm sure people thought I was crazy , but I cried because in this Persian

cookbook this author, the chef explained everything I had questions about, and that's when I realized, oh my God, I can, I can turn to food to have some of the deepest questions I have had my entire life be answered for me. And so to answer your question, where do we get our spices from at the back of this book, she had a whole index, like a whole, um, not index, but like a whole section of this is where you get this spice, and this is where you get this spice and they were all online. I'm like, so Joey online, Yeah, whatever culture it is put store after it and all these beautiful mom and pop

[00:36:23] Matt: shop mom and pop huge internet enterprises. No,

[00:36:26] Fawn: I like the mom and pop ones because like, I, we became friends with one of the mom and pop Persian stores from Atlanta.

We became friends with them and I cry, started crying all over again because of the way their emails were worded. I'm like, this is not normal. Like, are they talking to me like

[00:36:45] Matt: Well they would call you dear one and things?

[00:36:47] Fawn: Yes. And I'm like, oh my God, it's because of my name. Oh, look at that. And then when we became friends with the owners, they're like, oh no, we train our staff.

Speak that way with everybody. I'm like, oh, that's nice.

[00:36:59] Matt: I thought I was special. You couldn't let me have this. Uh, but anyways, just, just for one second, just to just drag a little geek back into the world, just for a second, the town that we lived in was actually, um, a town that Frank Herbert author of dune really enjoyed.

And I believe he lived there really. I'm not kidding. And his kids still live around there

[00:37:20] Fawn: every town we've moved to, some famous author was there. And now we're in the place of Keven Keven sting, Stephen King.

[00:37:28] Matt: Well, Steven came, did live in Boulder at

[00:37:31] Fawn: one point the whole, th that whole, um, you guys asked that shining the, yes,

[00:37:37] Matt: we've been to that hotel.

It's right, but it's not way up in the mountains. Up in the mountains, but it's surrounded by a big town.

[00:37:44] Joey: So I am very familiar. I am very passionate about Stephen King as well. And the shining is one of my favorite books I've ever read. And the sequel book to the shining that this is way off topic, but the sequel book to the shining that he wrote like six, seven years ago now is probably my favorite book.

[00:38:04] Fawn: Let's see. Our little girl has been for a few years now. Obsessed with Stephen King. No, Harry Potter. Couldn't be bothered. Steven's king little girl. My baby.

[00:38:17] Joey: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:18] Matt: Me personally. "The Stand" yes. Everything else. Stephen King. I don't like being creeped out that much. I'm okay with it in "The Stand", but on a bridge no less.

Um, but uh, yeah, I, I kinda don't like being creeped out when I read.

[00:38:33] Joey: I love it. I love it. I don't know. It's part of my. Uh, geek or nerd, identification. I love that kind of stuff. I love horror movies. I love being scared and I love Star Wars.

[00:38:48] Fawn: Speaking of being scared, I know. And, and also the woods, I know that when you were a kid, you were obsessed with being out in nature in the woods, staring at rocks, right?

Joey. And so which reminds me of the stories you began to tell me about your, your grandmother, right grandmother. A great grandmother. Great grandmother. Great grandmother. It's

[00:39:14] Joey: hard to keep everything. Oh my God. Hold on.

[00:39:16] Fawn: It was your great grandmother.

Because you were talking about how she had a hunting lodge and that no one would hunt because she would prepare all these beautiful meals. As a vegan. I'm like, yay. That is so beautiful. Tell us more about that.

[00:39:34] Joey: She, this is my Italian great grandmother, so I don't know. Maybe I should make a flow chart for putting up with this episode, but yes, my Italian great grandmother moved out of the city.

And she and her husband bought this hunting lodge or what they turned into a hunting lodge and yeah, so she would cook these incredible Italian meals for days. I mean, they'd cook for days. The legend goes that the hunters would show up and Their plan being to obviously go out and hunt, but no one would be, everyone was so infatuated with her food that no one would leave the place.

Nice. And it was incredible food. I mean, maybe I'm biased, but it was incredible. And she was just also an incredible woman. I mean, just like she, she fought for women's rights. She was part of the beginning of the garment workers union in New York. She bought, you know, they bought this hunting lodge and she helped to run the business.

She did so much, and she made so much including food in this world and she was just an incredible human being.

[00:40:42] Fawn: So she and your great Armenian grandfather. Do you know how they met?

[00:40:49] Joey: So she, uh, Z it's, it's so complicated. She married an Italian guy. They were both Italian. Her daughter was the one who married the Armenian, my Armenian grandfather.

So I'm actually not sure how they met, you know, that's another thing that I don't know, maybe my father knows, but that I've never asked about to my recollection, I guess.

[00:41:15] Fawn: So, oh my God, Joey. We've got to find out how they met. That's. One of my big things is like, how do people meet, how do they meet their loves?

[00:41:24] Joey: Right. I will find out. We'll do. Do a followup,

[00:41:27] Matt: Even the most banal stories can be just so intriguing due to the time you know, crossing cultures is always interesting as far as how that was actually managed to happen, particularly looking backwards.

[00:41:39] Joey: Right. And in New York city, both of their families came to New York city. And then, and to some extent, still now, you know, New York city is comprised of these cultural groups, these, you know, concentrated cultural groups. And so I assume that they've met there when these groups were in too far away from each other.

But yeah, question worth asking now that I'm like talking about wanting to know more about my family history,

[00:42:04] Matt: right. And oftentimes though cultures, yes, they will, to some extent melt, but marriage. That's a much bigger thing and that usually involves some angst somewhere.

So overcoming that

[00:42:16] Fawn: for sure. And then also speaking about groups. Why do you suppose certain groups end up in certain spots? Like I know the Armenian and Persian culture are very big in Los Angeles and New York. What was the term you use Joey? The emergency stop.

[00:42:35] Joey: Yeah,

[00:42:36] Fawn: One of our emergency stops was New York and then we went, we made it out to LA and when my family, I think, went out to LA, there were hardly any Persian people out there. Nobody, that's why it was so weird for me to spot somebody. And when I did, I would yell at them like yell, hello in Farsi. And so I'm wondering ,how does that really happen?

And, um, my theory was that one person will go there and it becomes this anchor this light that you can get drawn to. I was telling Joey that when I was a student in Europe, when I was studying in England and I would go to Europe, I would on my breaks, I would go to Paris or something.

But I remember this one day from far, far, far away, I saw someone about my age blonde. So my opposite. She turned around and she had a sweatshirt on and. I think it said Nebraska and I yelled at her the way I yelled to the Persian guy when I was five years old, three blocks away. Hello. I was like, waving Nebraska.

Hey, Hey. And so she was American and I was like, oh my God, what a lucky, fortunate event that I I'm seeing you you're from the United States??? Girl, so am I! do you know what I mean? Like we're drawn together for safety reasons, probably, you know, it's , that primal need to stick together right.

For safety reasons. Right. And so, anyway, like I met so many people like that because of a sweatshirt or a t-shirt, but it's interesting. I think that if there's any kind of a hint of some kind of relation, even if it's not directly relation related, it is like, oh my God, we come from the same place. We don't have to go and retell our stories again, because you know, I don't have to go through the effort of explaining myself to you because I can relax and in knowing that you know me and so we can form a community together.

[00:45:01] Joey: It's so funny that you say that because thinking about it now, it seems like I'm the exact opposite of that. You know, when it comes to all this stuff, I'm like I said, I'm very white, you know, I'm very white skinned.

So when I'm in these situations where like I see an Armenian person or we're around Armenian people, I feel very reserved and held back about doing that kind of thing about being like, Hey, I'm Armenian, you're in Armenian. You know what I mean? Because I don't know we were at this Lorelei, my partner and I, few months ago, we were in New York and we went to this Armenian festival.

It's just like the first time I've ever been to anything like that. Right. We didn't, like I said, we didn't do stuff like that. We didn't step over into the Armenian culture when I was younger. And we were just surrounded by all these Armenian people and it was amazing and it was awesome to see and they had food and it was awesome to eat.

And I just wanted to go up to some of the people. It was at a church, it was at an Armenian church, which, you know, I don't, I don't, I'm not religious. I don't know how to interact with any of that kind of stuff either. So, but there was a priest there and I thought, an Armenian priest. And I was like, oh, maybe he's someone I could go up and talk to and get information, you know, I'm so curious.

Cause you asked before you asked at the very beginning, you know, how do you express being who you are? Like, how do I express being Armenian? And I don't know how to do that. Like I have never been, there was no learning atmosphere when I was a kid. So I'm just learning all of it now. And a lot of it, like we've been talking about is through food, but pandemic times there's no one really to share that with unfortunately.

But my point is that I don't know how to express that. So I really wanted to ask these questions to somebody that I think about having asked my grandfather and never doing and not having the opportunity to now, but I feel so reserved and uncomfortable as crappy as that is to say, going up a random Armenian person and starting that conversation.

It's also, you know, I now have understand that my grandfather didn't talk about it for a reason, whatever it was, everything that had happened, which was terrible, like two-thirds of the population was killed. So a horrible event to go through, even though he was the next generation, the horrible events that have happened in very recent times.

And very little people left to talk with it about, of, of your own people. And again, living in a country that didn't recognize it then, and didn't recognize it for a hundred years. So my point is, I didn't know how to express it and they, I think. In their reservation to talk about stuff like that gave up on what you, what we've been talking about, like the sense of taste and the sense of smell and all of that, connecting them to something.

Because I think that that connection was hard to heal. So I just don't interact with those people in the same way as you, as you're explaining that you do. I really wish I did. Maybe if I like had a few drinks of Armenian wine and maybe I like have the courage to go up to them and talk

about that.

[00:48:34] Fawn: That's where a friendship comes in.

I mean, you know, thank God we've become friends because I've become quite like, I feel like I'm a Renegade because someone not liking me is of no consequence to me anymore. I don't care. But at the same time, I still sense that fear that I grew up with, because I was told when I went to school, don't let people know who you are.

Like I would physically be literally be told that by parents don't let them know our religion. Don't let them know where we just don't. And I still carry that with me. And, but I'm also watching the world and I'm seeing that once where immigrants felt comfortable being in the United States, because it was the land of the free and they could look at a Yiddish newspaper on the subway and not be killed for it.

They were like proud of that. But I feel like once again, that the tides have turned and you can't do that anymore, that you can't really tell people who you are, because there's so much confusion and hate because of the confusion happening right now that it's scary to let people know who you are. As I'm talking on our podcast and telling you I'm Persian, I have a little fear.

God honest truth.

[00:49:56] Matt: I, if I may be so bold, I think that there is a give and take to it. I think that there are certainly scenarios where it's okay. And you let your quote unquote freak flag flier, you let your Armenian flag fly, let your Persian flag fly. And honestly, if it was me, God offering advice that I shouldn't be offering, you know, you just literally have to say the equivalent of hello in Armenian and that's it.

And that lets them know that, you know, something now that may be literally the only thing, you know, how to say, but all of a sudden you're presenting yourself as somebody who's going to be respectful of the culture regardless. And then they'll find out that you're family and because you're Armenian and then that's another level.

And I've, I've seen my wife do this with people.

[00:50:41] Fawn: Joey. I do this all the time. The first time I had to actually physically realize this is what I need to do. And like consciously do it was, I've talked about this on the show before, but we were on a train, a very long Amtrak train ride. And Matt is a great debater and Matt is very Caucasian, very American white, hello, look at him.

You know, he, so you wouldn't think like when we're together, people don't think we're together, you know? So anyway, we were on this train and this kid, sorry, friends, who've heard this before. I make it very quick just for Joey, but like this kid from Berkeley hops on the train, because he is going to a debate.

He was on a debate team. And so he came from two mothers. So he came from the whole LGBTQ family. And this was a while ago, and this was a long time ago. And so, and he was going on a debate and he actually totally believed in what he was debating. Like he, what were we talking about? We're talking about medicine vaccines, ironically.

Yeah. Isn't that strange, this was years ago and how we should offer vaccines to, we should offer medicine to all the nations. It's really important that

[00:51:57] Matt: we should even provide the recipes to other nations. Right.

[00:51:59] Fawn: So this was years ago, Joey. And so Matt was like, okay, so this is your debate. I'm really good at debating.

So Matt's like, Matt literally told him, look, I will play devil's advocate. So I'm going to just go against you so you, I can help you practice. So that was their, that was their, um, what do you call it? That was their agreement. The passengers on the train did not hear that part.

So they start their debate and Matt is loud. Matt, look, Matt belongs on stage because he can project. And when he's pontificating and when he's debating, what do you mean? He gets really loud. And so Matt, as he was playing devil's advocate sounded like the biggest racist person on the planet. And to my horror, I started looking around going, oh, cause that was the only non-white person on the train.

Even this guy was white. So all of a sudden people were cheering Matt on and I got scared, Joey, because they were getting rowdy. And this poor little guy, little guy, he was, he was, he was

[00:53:14] Matt: 18 ish, you know, 18, 19.

[00:53:17] Fawn: So he was in high school. Right. 18,

[00:53:20] Joey: maybe on the correct side of the argument, but now he's got a train full of people against him.


[00:53:30] Fawn: yeah, Matt totally agreed with his argument, but like I said, he was playing devil's advocate, but the passengers didn't know that. So going back to food, what had happened was, as I was sinking in my seat, trying to not be noticed as I'm sitting next to this guy, my husband I'm like, what am I going to do?

Because once this guy, thankfully, his stop was close by. So he got off the train. And by the way, when he got off the train, the whole train booed and her, uh, her raid, they were like,

yeah, guy. And it was, and then I was like, So hello. So Joey, I go in my bag . When we travel, we carry our own, I carry food and stuff with us. So I started to take out these beautiful cookies and whenever I had in our bag and offering them to people and these eight, this angry mob turned smiling and thankful in an instant.

And we became not friends, but like friendly. So food is a great connector to understanding one another or at least calming down, you know, maybe leveling the blood sugar a little bit. I don't know. Anyway. Well,

[00:54:55] Matt: honestly, I think that that argument goes back and forth spices. I think absolutely can connect everyone, but sometimes people take a look at some of the quote-unquote food and they're like, oh, I mean, you know, in the south they eat a hog jaws,

[00:55:10] Joey: right.

It's a little tough

[00:55:13] Matt: for me. That's a little tough to understand for me. And there's other cuisines around the world that everybody, you know, comments on jokes about, um, you know, by the way, live, live and let live, you know, um, is, is firmly my motto. That's just a little tough for me and that's me being honest,

[00:55:32] Fawn: but here's where the thing comes in.

So like as a, as a child and, you know, as an immigrant child going to elementary school and showing up with my bagged lunch and being ridiculed, actually I was never ridiculed. My friends were ridiculed. I had a vibe on me. People didn't mess with, maybe they knew my violence, kindergarten self. I had a past and kindergarten Joey, I did.

I had a past, I would knock kids out. Like it was crazy that I never got in trouble. Um, but anyway, which leads me to this, the drive to get accepted can drive us away from who we are, where we came from and our whole family, because showing up with a bagged lunch that has a different spice or scent to it, than peanut butter and jelly.

And the question, the way it's posed, like "What's THAT?!" Is so triggering for immigrants or for anyone that's different. Sure. Not just immigrants, but it is so triggering. And so we were talking about like, maybe some of this started to shift, uh, during the movie, "The Breakfast Club", when Molly Ringwald had sushi for lunch,

[00:56:54] Matt: compared all the different lunches that they had, the jock had plenty had way too much food.

Um, but Ally Sheedy had a pixie sticks and bread.

[00:57:05] Joey: Yeah.

[00:57:05] Fawn: Right, right, right. But like to have sushi and there was a big deal for me because I had a friend who would come to school with sushi and she was totally Caucasian. Like you would look at her, look like Midwestern girl, white, middle Western, all American girl.

But she would show up with sushi because her parents were hippies, but you know, she, but she was an outcast because of the sushi. Do you know what I mean? So like little by little we'll get accepted because once people start tasting things, they're like, oh yeah. And then maybe on a molecular level, they start remembering their own heritage on some level and therefore more accepting and more loving and more, uh, nourishing themselves.

But other people as well in their speak, in their, their vision of what our society is and could be, or has been.

[00:58:03] Joey: Right. Well, it's very important to have that, to bridge the gaps, right? Like we talked about food being that connector. I talked with Jolene Jang, uh, stop Asian hate activist on my podcast about stop Asian, hate everywhere and in pop culture and in Star Wars and stuff.

And she had mentioned the same thing, you know, going to school as a kid with quote, weird food. And being ridiculed and as much as that's changing now, right? Like all of these different cultural foods are becoming destinations. All of these different restaurants are becoming destinations and maybe we'll learn, you know, maybe this country will learn that like Chinese food shouldn't be cheap, right?

Like that's a thing, like it's a cheap option. And that's why everybody goes to it, but like quality ingredients and where they are sourced from and stuff like that, it all deserves to be paid for what it is worth. And the spiteful New Yorker in me wants to say has less love than you. I would say for it, like wants to say, no, you didn't want this then.

And it's mine now. You know what I mean? Like you thought my food was weird when you were bullying me in elementary school, but. Now it's mine and you can't have it. And so there, uh,

[00:59:29] Fawn: so it's still fine and you should totally feel that and embrace that. And, and trust me, you will get over it and you'll want to have a large table filled with great conversation music.

[00:59:40] Joey: Yeah. I also want people to try this stuff. I also want, because you know, I, I want everyone to understand everyone, right. That's just where we're at in the world. Everyone just understand everyone and be okay with everyone and we'll all get by. Um, and so, and food is the best bridge for that. Like you're saying inviting people in, like, we have to be the people who understand that, to invite people in and add that as a link in the chain.

Well, we

[01:00:16] Matt: always started to change. We always talk about it's important to be a good host, so, yes,

[01:00:21] Fawn: right? Yeah. The key here. Nourishment, you know, we talk about on our show all the time, uh, the term comes up quite a bit of capacity. People don't have the capacity for friendship anymore. Why? So we get to the root of that.

That's what we talk about constantly is what is at the root of that? What is the root of this particular matter? It's because we are extended beyond belief with stress, even if it's stress that you don't even, you're not even aware of; it's passed down to you generation to generation. You may not know the exact when's why's how's of it, but it's in your blood.

Like the African-American population has hypertension because it's the stress from generations. That's embedded in everything, right? And I think the key, this is why proper nutrition is important. And by nutrition, I'm talking about nourishment and nourishment comes in the form of food. It comes in the form of art, conversation, music. And it can be all brought to the table.

So I have a special ask of you, Joey, are you ready? I am ready. I want to continue this conversation. And I, I have an assignment for you for me and for our friends listening, we're going to bring in Joey's expertise here as a geologist.

[01:01:58] Joey: And try

[01:01:59] Fawn: my best. And I want you to incorporate geology with anthropology and archeology. Are you ready? Sure. So there is this, and please forgive me, my Armenian friends out there. I'm mispronouncing everything. And please, if you could come on our show and help me pronounce things properly, that would be amazing.

And maybe we could share some other ideas and I can learn some more and Joey can learn some more also, but me, especially I'm I'm I really need to learn. I was wondering if we could all do. Uh, bread together and break this bread together on the show. Besides photography, when the kids were born, I'm like, well, photography is so hard and I'm always on location.

It'll just be easier and better. I'll have way more time if I was a baker. So it's a joke. I mean, I became a baker. I started my own vegan bakery. It was ridiculous. I cried all day every day. Talk about no time for anything. And I was exhausted, but anyway, um, I'm really obsessed with baking and I had to show the wish baker faith in a seed.

And I want to, I've always wanted to continue that on with our friendly world because of everything we talked about today, because it is about friendship and I would like to make bread and break it with all of you guys. So I'm going to give you a simple list of ingredients. Everyone go get, if you can,

[01:03:23] Matt: and these will be posted in the show notes as well.

[01:03:25] Fawn: Yes, there'll be in the show notes, but I was wondering if we could make an Armenian Gata bread, G a T a Ghada, or I would've said gotta, but they were saying Ghada online. It's a beautiful sweet bread. I actually grew up with this Joey. Oh yeah. Yeah, I did. And so it's,

[01:03:46] Joey: it's something that I've never had again, like I I've just started collecting these Armenian cookbooks.

You know, I bought a few at that Armenian festival that I was talking about earlier. And so there are all these recipes in it of stuff I've obviously never had, but I just came across this or I just came across a like blog post about this bread the other day. I think it was maybe it was an Instagram post from a baker that I follow on Instagram and get his newsletter, Andrew Janjgian I think is how you pronounce his last name, but he owns a bakery called word loaf. And I think it's somewhere in Massachusetts. Anyway, give, give world word w O R D loaf a follow, and he's got amazing pictures of all of this, all of these Armenian breads and Asian and middle Eastern breads and stuff like

[01:04:42] Fawn: that.

And I want to start with this bread, Joey, because for several reasons, but this dessert , it's an actual dessert, it's very rich and heavy and light at the same time. It is incredibly nourishing to the soul. It is beautiful. It's a major dessert served at the most important celebrations.

It's often called the Jewel of the feast table. So I thought it's befitting for our gatherings at our table at our friendly world for us to sprout this off with creating this beautiful ceremonial bread. It's the queen of Armenian dessert is what it's called.

That's the nickname for it. So you guys, please get, by the way, I'm going to tell you eggs, but you know, you all know I'm vegan and I'm going to make the vegan version with you. I'm going to tell you how and Joey, you're more than welcome to do the vegan version with me, or you can do your own, but we're going to on our next podcast, we're going to bake together.

As we're talking

[01:05:53] Joey: 100% love that. Here is

[01:05:54] Fawn: the list of ingredients for our ceremony bread. You need two eggs instead of eggs, us vegans are going to use aquafaba, which is the best egg replacement.

And what you do is you can use it out of the can. I don't. I always, boil chickpeas. It's the water from beans and chickpeas work the best. If you want to make anything Meringue, by the way, if you beat a little bit of this with some cream of tartar it makes better stiff white peaks.

Like how people beat egg whites. It's better to use aquafaba because you get stiffer the most amazing white peaks. We need two eggs. So get yourself some, aquafaba. You can just get the, chick pea cans, or you can boil, two to four cups of chickpeas in a big pot of water and save that water.

It'll be kind of gelatinized the liquid and that's what we want. You want to save that you want to strain that part and put it in a jar. A mason jar. My favorite, I can't get enough and just put it in the fridge. So we need two eggs. I would say I'm going to veer away from the recipe and add my own Persian flavor to it, which is actually probably Armenian.

Also we need dates, I would say maybe eight to 10 dates. A handful of walnuts I say half a cup of sugar guys, but, uh, for vegans out there, you know what to do for sugar. So evaporated cane juice. We need three cups of flour, one package of instant yeast. You need baking soda, a little salt, just to be safe, two sticks of butter.

We don't actually use two sticks of butter, but have two sticks of butter handy. And for my vegan friends, you know what to do for butter. You can get any vegan butter out there, or you can even use coconut oil, some vanilla extract, some cardamom not necessary, but I would put in some cardamom, cinnamonum, rosewater guys, the best rose water is Cortaz, C O R T a S.

Again, you don't need to use the rose water and it needs to be rosewater like middle Eastern rosewater. This is not perfume guys. Okay. It is edible rosewater and it is divine. And that's it. How do we bring geology and archeology and all that into it?

It's the decoration of this bread that is key. Joey, they have stamps that they have traced to I don't have my notes in front of me, but like basically the beginning of civilization, they have these I'll show you pictures. I'll share it with you and we'll share it with our friends on the next show, but they found these stamps, that date back

many many, many, many, many thousands of years. And these are the stamps that are used on this bread, because it is a ceremonial bread. It is for, it has its purpose for a certain deities. I'll share more information on our next show, it's really beautiful the designs and each design has a certain meaning to it.

Matt. Anything,

[01:09:18] Joey: can I ask a question real quick? Do you all have, maybe this is a question for our baking episode, but I'm going to do it now. So I know what to do. Do you all adjust have to adjust the recipe like I'm at 7,200 feet and I don't know how to bake anything here, everything.

So I have to like change the ratios of everything.

[01:09:41] Fawn: Matt is probably laughing. First of all, I never follow a recipe. Second of all, we have moved like nomads so many times and each oven is a different animal. And then moving to a high altitude. I still can't tell you what the difference is because we've moved so many times at sea level and then up here at high altitude that I'm still perplexed.

So that's one of the reasons I don't follow recipes. I just kind of just look at it and feel for it. And you know what, I smell for it when something starts smelling, I'm like, it's time to take it out. Right. Whereas Matt wants exact measurement and exact time. He has a timer.

[01:10:23] Matt: It's good to know 20 minutes versus, you know, looking at it after

[01:10:27] Joey: five.

[01:10:29] Fawn: So to answer your question, I don't know. And also on our next show, I want to get into scent because we were talking about smells and it started to bring back memory for you. I could see it on your face, Joey. Yeah. So I want to talk about that,

[01:10:47] Matt: um, can I just ask one question? What kind of flower, because there's a million different types

[01:10:52] Fawn: of all purpose flour.

We use Einkorn flour, which is from Italy. It's an ancient grain, all purpose flour guys. No big deal. So please don't panic.

[01:11:03] Joey: Yep. It's a good opportunity for me to get potentially emotional. I mean, I was getting a little emotional when we were talking about this sense.

And just now, when I was talking about like, not going up to ask people at the Armenian festival questions and stuff, you know, I think I'm relatively hesitant sometimes to do this kind of thing or dip my toe. I don't know why, but this is how we

[01:11:29] Fawn: express ourselves. This is exactly how you do it. And like Joey, get some of the rosewater, splash it around, put it in your tea, throw it in the air.

I'm telling you, put it on your forehead.

That's how you express it. My friend actually, that's my way. So I don't know, but we'll just start from here and we'll see where we end up. Sure. We'll see you in a few days and our next show. Joey, are you ready? I'm ready. Get your ingredients, everybody. We love you so much. Thank you for listening. Ooh, can I just put a plug out there?

First of all, make sure you reach Joey Joey's link is right there in our show notes, but. Can you guys buy us a cup of coffee? I put the coffee. What's that app called? Buy me a coffee. If you like what we're doing, if you want to support our thing over here, may I be so bold and brave to ask you to please buy us a cup of coffee?

Whatever you can spare would be amazing. I thank you. Okay. That's it. Anything you want to add? Yeah. Can I put in a

[01:12:36] Joey: quick plug? Yes, please. Just, for anyone out there who is listening to this that is Armenian. Like I said, I'm I have questions.

I'd love to talk to people. I haven't had many Armenians in my life to talk to. So if you're listening and you'd like to talk, please reach out to all of my contact info will be through that link that that Fawn is putting in the. In the show notes. So please, please, please reach out. Got it. And on our website.

Perfect. Thank you for letting me say that.

[01:13:09] Fawn: Of course Joey! We got to expand our friends circle, right? Absolutely. Anything you want to add, Matt? He's shaking his head. No. All right. We love you all. We'll see you in a few days. Get your ingredients. I cannot wait to break bread with you. Thank you, everybody.

See you soon. Bye.