Dec. 27, 2021

The Art of the Map with the Magical Cartographers

The Art of the Map with the Magical Cartographers

Today's topic is turning to friends for direction as we introduce you to 4 new friends-The Magical Cartographers (Ish, KJ, Jocelyn, and Mel). Today's art of friendship is the art of the map. Inside of each person is a map. It is there even before we are born, a way to get the full picture of the full landscape is to share what is contained in our hearts because it is our hearts that hold the latent image.
Side note: If you would like to support our show:
To reach your new friends from this episode:
Jocelyn Lindsay
KJ Nasrul
Mel Morris
Ish Modak
Facebook Group:
Facebook Page:

Today's topic is turning to friends for direction as we introduce you to 4 new friends-The Magical Cartographers (Ish, KJ, Jocelyn, and Mel). Today's art of friendship is the art of the map. Inside of each person is a map. It is there even before we are born, a way to get the full picture of the full landscape is to share what is contained in our hearts because it is our hearts that hold the latent image.

Side note: If you would like to support our show:

To reach your new friends from this episode:

Jocelyn Lindsay

KJ Nasrul

Mel Morris


Ish Modak

Facebook Group:


Facebook Page:




[00:00:00] Fawn: Hello, everybody. Welcome to our friendly world. Today's topic is turning to friends for direction. Today's art of friendship is the art of the map. Inside of each person is a map. It is there even before we are born, a way to get the full picture of the full landscape is to share what is contained in our hearts, because it is our hearts that hold the latent image.

Now latent image. That's my photography term. It's the image held within the silver emulsion that comes to light during the process. So to get that latent image to come to life, we share our stories and our ways. How do we course and navigate the geography and terrain of our lives during a time of change, turbulence, shakeups, and movement, while looking for our original family members? The art of the map is mapping out ways to have lasting friendships; the friendship that has existed in an out of time.

Imagine if you will a map you could only feel -a blueprint. What if, while we are here, we actually are surrounded by our spirit family and to find them, we would have to unravel all the signs and the coincidences to realize the hidden codes that are there. That have always been there that reveal our friendship, our family alliance. And to do that, we have to have gumption; the bravery to stop everything when you notice a spark and say, hold it right there; asking an opening question, saying, I want to connect with you. It's about asking and opening ourselves up to the mystery of us.

So we were talking about maps, Matt and I have always had a love of maps. Matt, you were saying maps are very psychic, right? You were saying that a map gives you direction. It shows where you are and where you want to go. It's very comforting to know what turns are coming. And I think that's what friendship is.

[00:02:19] Matt: Yes, no friendship is to me, more like a scavenger hunt. It's more like having maybe even an incomplete map that was hand drawn by somebody because you kind of know, or you think, you know, when you walk out your door that you want to climb a mountain, but then you end up in town because life has this annoying, wonderful habit of pushing you into directions maybe you didn't know you wanted to take. So for me, yes, maps are psychic. Maps are omniscient. Maps are just beautiful things. I mean, you know, in the squares of the map, it contains every single street, every single, et cetera, et cetera. But life is more unanticipated.

[00:03:03] Fawn: So you just want to disagree with me to disagree with me because I said that the map is what's inside of our hearts.

Did I not say that? Or did I write that somewhere else? Forgot about it. That's what I'm saying. Or our hearts are the map, but life. Yeah. Life is a scab scavenger, is scavenger hunt. It's terrible. That makes me think of cultures and stuff like scavenging scavenge. What's the word scavenger hunt?

Um, it's not, it's not nice. But yeah, it, it is, like I said, it's a mystery of us. It's about you, of all people, Mr. Code, you should know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about there's a mystery out there to unravel. There's so many clues out there and we all are connected. So like to unravel every beautiful little clue and realize, oh my God, we have been connected all along.

And finally, by some mystical force and the right timing, whatever you want to call it, we have come together as friends, or we will come together as friends. And there's that hope. But anyway, so what now you're quiet. Did I offend you. No,

[00:04:14] Matt: not at all. Not at all, but you know, for me, it's. It's more of a psychic phenomena to understand when you're on your path when good things are going to come, it's not to me, this omniscient piece of paper that holds my fate and my destiny.

It's, it's much more esoteric to me.

[00:04:38] Fawn: Look, I, to find you or I let's, it's all about friendship, all relationships, but I'll like, describe the way we met. It. Took all these windy paths for me to finally get to where you were. We actually had like this whole thing where we came together within yards of one, another 13 years before we met and we felt each other, but I couldn't turn around to look at you.

I sensed you. But it, the force was so big and I was engaged to somebody else. I didn't, I didn't turn around. You know what I mean? So finally, I mean, getting to the day of me finally getting to you was the day with the help of friends who led me to this bizarre Aikido school martial arts school that you were in.

I had no idea, but like, first of all, I couldn't even get there and I didn't have navigation. So I had to get directions from friends and all these people on the phone. Like it was ridiculous. And I had a time limit. I had to be there by what, six, 6:00 PM. It started, but it was ridiculous to find this, this pause.

And because I had the help of friends. I finally navigated my way through and that's what I'm talking about. There's this whole mystical navigation happening. Am I making any sense? Whatever. Okay, so you guys out there today, I want to introduce you to your four new friends, four new friends to introduce you to today; friends who have bonded over burning down outmoded paths through their love of maps.

They connected, they bonded, supported one another and created a whole new path for themselves. And I was lucky enough to be a part of this group. Like I've been in their meetings before, like their get togethers and these friends right here are the real deal. Each one of them so different and so powerful and so inspiring to listen to.

I want to introduce you to these four women one, you know, already, because she is a constant friend to our show. KJ is here. Everybody KJ, our friend. Hi, KJ. Welcome. You know, KJ. You guys remember licensed psychotherapist and musician and incredible human being extraordinary KJ Nasrul hi.

[00:07:12] KJ: Hi. Thanks for having me back.

I'm waiting for you to shut the door on me one of these days and I'm still going

[00:07:19] Fawn: open. Why, why would you ever say that, you know what? That's never going to happen? Well,

[00:07:24] KJ: when you told me tonight that this is like appearance number nine, I was just like, oh, good Lord. Am I that person? Am I the unwelcome house guest?

I dunno.

[00:07:33] Fawn: Um, are you, are you trying to reverse the roles because it's, it's me. Who's always knocking on your door saying, can you come over please? So maybe just stop it. I love you. Thank you for being here. Next we have Mel Morris, speaking of mystics, beautiful mystic right here. Speaker personal coach and Tarot life planner.

Everyone, please meet beautiful, Mel Morris. Hi Mel.

[00:08:01] Mel: Hey

ya. Oh my gosh. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. From the first moment I met you fawn, I just fell in love with you and you are such, you are just the epitome of what support should look like.

You know, through this short journey that the magical cartographers have been on, you have been there every step of the way, just showing up and just fully invested in us. And I can't thank you enough for that. So thank you so much for, for having me

and for having us here,

[00:08:35] Fawn: Mel. I'm so glad you're here and I'm so glad.

Thank you so much for everything because the first time I met you all, I actually cried afterwards because I was like, you know, this is what I've been trying to create. This is what I've been talking about and I'm doing it for other people. And I kind of left myself out of this. My whole mission is to bring back the art of friendship and bring back, this, support this family, the sense of strength when we're together, we're stronger.

Right. And I kind of lost it for myself. I'm like, I don't care if I don't have it. I want others to have it. And when I met you all, I cried because. I seriously felt it. We were talking about how hard it is for me living where I'm living in the middle of the country and just dealing with microaggressions and, you know, the racism, every, everything, just being a mother, everything and the support I felt from you, the love above all and the sense that I am family.

The sense that you guys had my back and we had just met, it was exactly what I've been telling the world about. I'm like, this is it folks. This is it. You don't have to know each other for thousands of years. We've known each other in and out of time. And so when you come together and it will happen, if you feel like you don't have it right now, you don't have your tribe.

You don't to have a friend. I guarantee you, it will happen. And you will see what it feels. Everything you've heard from us. This is it. And that's the love I thought from you guys. So, thank you Mel, for being here. Everybody, please meet Jocelyn. Everyone. Jocelyn Lindsay is a certified book publishing strategist. You help people become authors, like actually get their books out. Get published. Yes,

[00:10:34] Jocelyn: absolutely. Get your story out

[00:10:36] Fawn: and love it. I'll be turning to you soon oh, perfect.

[00:10:39] Mel: I'll

[00:10:39] Jocelyn: be here.

I'll be here waiting for you. And I, I want to echo what Mel said. Having you there in those first few meetings that we were putting together and you showing up and seeing your smiling face, it, it buoyed us. I mean, having that friendship and that instant sense of connection with you, you really helped solidify what we were trying to put together and feeling and not really, and not quite there yet.

And having you be there was like amazing. You have been in the back of our mind in the front of our, you are a presence for us every time we get together and meet and start talking. So we love you. And we are so thrilled to be here

[00:11:29] Fawn: with you, Jocelyn. I love you so much. Thank you so much. I, um, I feel the same way about you guys.

And I there's so much, I want to say to all of you. , but before then, cause I'm like, I'm rambling now. I want everyone else, everyone out there, please. I would like to introduce you to Ish

Modak she is an internal medicine physician. She is a creator of mindful working mom collective. She is so much every single one of these ladies, are really multifaceted. I hate having to introduce friends as what they do with their jobs. That's not what I'm about. And having said that you all need to reach out to these people because they are phenomenal.

They will change your life. Their links are directly. Underneath our show notes, like in the first few sentences. So if you want to reach out to them, there are links for you right there to do it. So please everyone meet Ish.

[00:12:34] Ish: Thank you Fawn, I am so glad that, you know, KJ because, cause she brought you into our world and you're, you're lovely.

Like I love you so much. It's just like, and I just want everybody to know, like, you know, we talk so much about friendship and being in person and things like that, but I've I know all of these women virtually and I met you virtually and you can have really strong, connections, if you choose to.

And I think, really what we're about and I think Fawn, what you're about is like seeing the real, you and I think that's what people want. They want to be seen. And that's what we are here to do is for people to be seen, to be heard, to be understood and to be supported. There's too much other BS out there, but you just said

lighting some matches with these ladies

[00:13:27] Fawn: and with you, Fawn.

Ish is just saying that because these ladies like to burn stuff up, KJ knows that I have a truck driver mouth, but on the podcast I do not. So they like to burn stuff up, not burn stuff down, you know, there's another

[00:13:45] Mel: word for staff that I will be mindful.

[00:13:49] Fawn: No, no, no.

Please, please be free to speak your mind. And I want to say as far as like getting together with you, like in person or through zoom is the same thing. I remember, um, I was having a rough day and I was very tired and KJ was saying, you need self care. I'm like, Ugh, yuck. I always like every time I heard self care, I felt, um, annoyed.

And so she's like, you need self care, come join our group, come listen to us, come talk to us. I'm like, KJ, I don't feel like going out like that. You know, when someone invites you to a party, you're like, I don't feel like going out. It was the same thing, but it was zoom. I'm like, I don't feel like going out and reluctantly I was there. And as soon as I saw you, like the first few words I heard from your lips, all of you, I was like, so incredibly energized, and hooked. I'm like these people are amazing. So everybody they're known as the magical cartographer. I'm like cartographer, what is that? What is that? It is the study of maps.

So this is everyone you've now met the magical cartographers Matt. You're really quiet.

[00:15:02] Matt: Well, I just totally slammed maps, so I'm just nervous.

[00:15:07] Fawn: Oh

[00:15:07] Matt: no, no, no. As a metaphor for friendship,

[00:15:10] KJ: you didn't slam it.

[00:15:12] Ish: I love,

[00:15:13] Matt: oh, well I got to try hard now.

[00:15:16] Mel: Yeah.

[00:15:17] Ish: I have to go back to this because

[00:15:19] KJ: you said, um,

[00:15:21] Ish: I, the way that I perceived what you said that was about maps is that it's not this set in stone thing that, so now I'm like, I'm interpreting what you said.

And I think that is totally so true. It is not set in stone ma like so cartography and like creating this landscape, this soul scape. So that's the other part, like I'm a soul scape strategist and creating that and that a map can change because if you look like one of the things that fascinates me about maps is like looking at a map over time and how things change and how things grow.

So I don't think you were slamming maps at all. Like, I totally got what you said. I was like, oh yeah, you're one of us. Okay. But you're married to Fawn.

[00:16:03] Fawn: So, I mean, he is, he is one of us guys, and I know we talk about the patriarchy and we can talk about the patriarchy with Matt by the way, full on.

[00:16:14] Mel: Oh, we, oh, we will.

We'll we'll absolutely let you in, on all of the conversations. And I also wanted to say if I could quickly, cause I also wrote that, that I loved, loved. The introduction that you gave. And there's like so many little things I wrote down, but one thing that, um, to kind of in between both of you, I think, Matt, you said that originally maps are psychic and I was like, oh, that's such an interesting concept, but then Fawn, you talked about how maps are in our hearts.

And absolutely, and I think the link between the two is that for us, you know, cartographers are not just the folks who study maps and, and they're the actual folks who draw the maps, who write the maps. And for us, that is what cartography is. It is about us learning the lay of our own land and drawing those maps out.

And so if I think about what both of, you said, the psychic quality comes from us, right? The ones who are actually drawing the maps. Okay. So, you know, it, the map is just paper and ink. It takes us, it takes our heart and our soul, as we're talking about magical cartography, to draw those lay lines, but even in, the mundane world, there are people who yes,

had to learn and study and understand and have scientific rationale for drawing little dots on lines. But once you have that information, I mean the power that you feel from that. Right. And so all of that is what we're trying to harness here. And so you're both 100% right in your summation of what maps really are and how we need them and how we create them.

[00:18:00] Fawn: Thanks, Mel. Matt it's. Okay. So first of all, friends out there, we, we normally record early in the morning. And now it's at night it's past Matt's bed time. And usually when someone says you were right to Matt, he totally does a happy dance, but he's sitting there. Um,

[00:18:17] Matt: I'm being pensive because now my question is okay, that's great.

Okay. Cartography, I get it. Your cartographers totally get it. Do you see yourselves as Lord of the Ringsy type, meaning that you have an understanding, you have a quest to take the ring to Mount doom and you're going to get there, but corrob durosu may make it, so you can't go through that way. So you got to go a different way.

Do you see yourselves as Lewis and Clark patriarchy woot, um, where you're actually exploring an unknown territory, like, you know, going through the Louisiana purchase. Cause of course, Sacagawea we didn't help them at all right. Anyways. Um, or do you see yourselves as taking existing maps and like illustrating them, like putting old school, like putting mermaids in there or here be dragons.

You know, I mean, there's, there's so many different kinds of ripples and nuances. Cause cartography back in the day was very, you know, artsy and, there's a certain amount of heavy precision now to it, especially GPS, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So you know of those things and I'm sure you're about to say all of them.

Where do you guys really see yourselves?

[00:19:27] Jocelyn: Well, I think it's interesting that we're talking about maps in terms of geography we're talking at in terms of space and places and locations and boundaries, when you can have maps of the heart, you can have maps of the stars, you can have maps of the soul. So I would blow us out beyond just thinking in terms of landscape. I would take us out to the cosmos level or the mythological level, and go beyond just, Mordor or the Louisiana purchase,

[00:20:01] Fawn: uh,

[00:20:05] KJ: you know,

[00:20:05] Ish: Lord of the rings. I mean, Oh, I love that. But yeah, no, the volcano

[00:20:10] Jocelyn: fire into that,

[00:20:12] Mel: but

[00:20:13] Ish: fire fire is a theme.

[00:20:19] Fawn: I

[00:20:19] Mel: mean, ultimately the work that we are doing within ourselves, individually, within ourselves as a group, and then collectively that we are working to create with other people is helping people understand that someone else may have drawn a map for you, but if they were not in you, if they were not of you, that's their map, right?

That's the way that they want to get from point a to point B. You have the ability and the capacity to figure out who the hell you are within and draw your own map. It doesn't require someone else's assistance to do that for you. And that is. As we talk more about the patriarchy, right? That's what we're trying to step back from.

You don't have to use that map. That's been in place. You can draw your own.

[00:21:13] Fawn: Oh my God, Mel. I have a story. Can I interject? And actually, this is one of the questions I have for you guys, regarding, maps and creating your own way, you know, creating your own map. One of my questions was, can you share some map stories or do you have any maps stories?

What I wanted to share with you guys was this. When I graduated high school, I had to, pack up my bags, everything I owned. I had worked through high school to raise enough money, to get myself into this really expensive art school. And I paid cash. It was a very scary time. I was disowned by the family because they didn't want, they were just horrible.

I don't want to get into that right now, but, um, needless to say it was kind of scary going to a new city. I had to find my own way and I had a map of San Francisco and I loved this thing, but I clutched onto it every day, all day, all day, every day, I even slept with it. And one day, one of my friends, Josh, who was this hip, guy from New York, mysterious, quiet, but like he was intriguing and he he's sought out to be my friend.

And he's like, come on Fon, let's go explore San Francisco together. He actually was going to the same art school I was going to, and I said, great. And just as we were about, we were living in a youth hostel. And just when I closed the door to my room. I'm like, oh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I forgot my map.

So I opened the door. I go in there, I run and I grabbed the map and he'd seen me with this map every single day. He took my map and he threw it. So I couldn't get it. He was like, stop it. You know, let's live. You need to live, stop putting your head in the map and let's explore. And that was, uh, w what's I can't pronounce this word.

That was one of the inciting incidences in my life in San Francisco that I pronounce it. Right. Inciting incident.

[00:23:23] Matt: I have no idea what.

[00:23:25] Fawn: You don't know inciting incident? No. You know, uh, is that the point you're getting thumbs up, so you're good. What do you mean? You don't know? You don't know what I'm sometimes, you know, a situation where like, it, it shifts you, right?

It started a movement for you. Yeah. So anyway, that's my map story. And Matt, you said you don't have a map story, but I know for a fact you have a love affair with Thomas Thomas. The guide in

[00:23:52] Matt: LA there's a back in the day, there was just LA, it was LA orange county. Wait a minute. The whole country

[00:23:59] Fawn: has a Thomas guide.

[00:24:01] Matt: If you say LA orange county. So I

[00:24:03] Fawn: don't know nothing, nothing does anybody know about that? Jocelyn says on

[00:24:09] Mel: the east

[00:24:10] Fawn: coast, wait, I thought that the wino country here

[00:24:15] Matt: well, and that's just it. I

[00:24:17] KJ: got you, man. I'm a Cali

[00:24:18] Matt: girl. I'm willing to bet Thomas guide is gone now, frankly, because of, you know, phones and whatnot.

But the Thomas guide was something you kept in your car. It was a book, you know, it was like 11 by eight and a half. It was kind of, you know, and page after page, after page showing you every single street in LA and

[00:24:38] Fawn: orange county's geometry, it was very math based. So you had to get the grid and the numbers and correspond them together to find your

[00:24:46] Matt: every street.

And you had an index, you could look up, you know, your street. Cause of course that's what you always look up in a map because we're all idiots. And so we look up our own street, like the one place we know how to find, but anyways, yeah. Kept Thomas Guy to my car. Absolutely use it all the time. Tooling around this was before we had.

You know, before, uh, GPS was widely available for our cell phones could give us turn by turn directions. And

[00:25:09] Fawn: then we also had triptiks. Do you guys know about triptiks from AAA? If you go on a trip oh yeah. They make a little book just for you. And then they highlight it.

[00:25:20] Ish: Yeah. Memories of road trips with the

[00:25:22] Matt: family.

And there you go. The flipping the pages was always very exciting.

[00:25:25] Fawn: Yeah. The next chapter. But anyway, um, do you guys have any maps stories that changed your life or changed the trajectory?

[00:25:34] Mel: I don't have any map stories. I will say that the interesting thing about being a magical cartographer is that in real life I am notoriously lost. I can't ever find anything. I am fortunate to have married someone with an incredible sense of direction. I always some navigation tool. And before there was a GPS that was accessible to the public, I would literally have like handwritten notes in my car of how to get from point a to point B.

And if there was a detour, I was just screwed

[00:26:13] Fawn: to me too. Same, same

[00:26:16] Ish: Fawn, the map stories I think that I have are those that were imposed upon me for a large part. And this is why like, and I think this is some way in relation in answer to the question and in what Matt was asking as well, is that I don't see us as magical cartographers as following a sysytem. There is no one system. It is what your system is, and it is uncovering what that lay of the land looks like for you. And I think that we are living in a day and age, it's really scary for a lot of people who are very used to prescribed maps. And there are a lot of people who have suffered before and are still suffering because of those prescribed maps and what we're wanting people to uncover and what I am uncovering for myself is also what my own lay of the land is. And the little bits that I've learned, I want other people to be able to open themselves up to themselves.

[00:27:24] Matt: And I absolutely think, I absolutely think you're right there. We've gone through, we're still going through an, a period of incredible change and some of this change has been coming for a long time.

We just weren't seeing it like climate change. But more importantly, it feels not more importantly, nothing's really more important than that, but secondarily, we're looking at industries being completely rewritten. You know, is, is Amazon gonna destroy main street, like Walmart was supposed to, God knows, but they're certainly making an interesting run at it.

We're seeing so much just raw change in the banking industry and the way we communicate, I mean, I mean, look at us, you know, how many different areas of the world, you know, of the United States of the world? Are we in right now on this conversation we're having, I mean, this is incredible. And could we do this seven years ago?

Well, yeah, with a lot of expensive equipment probably. I think that looking at a map as a static thing, like how we initially started the conversation, even a Thomas guide, the rate of change that we're seeing is just so dynamic. It makes it impossible for us to rely on the map.

And so looking at a map as a physical map, or, you know, a map inside of our hearts as being, uh, this is the direction I think I want to go, instead of this is how we'll get there.

[00:28:44] Fawn: And that's where friends come in. I turned to KJ two hours ago. I'm like, girl, I don't know where to go. I seriously, don't know where to go.

And she gave me some direction.

[00:28:55] Ish: And Josh, Ashley did that for you, Fawn, too. Like, that's what I love. Like, just in what Matt and you were talking about your map story and what Matt is talking about. He liked basically was like, you're not following this. Like you're not going to hang on to this prescribed.

You're going to like open and then he was there to catch you.

[00:29:15] Fawn: Exactly. Yeah, totally. I had a friend to walk shoulder to shoulder with and navigate the streets that were so scary to me because it was all new. And I had no family, nobody, nothing, you know, very little money. All my money I had was being turned over to this expensive art school, you know, ridiculous like no safety net, but we are each other's safety nets and it's a magical net. It's interwoven around all galaxies and to uncover how those things are woven is just amazing. And that's how I met KJ KJ. And I had a spark along with another friend, Beth, and we started calling each other, the mystery of us because the more we spoke, the more we realized how much we actually had in common from before birth, you know, like putting all the magical pieces together was mind blowing.

And before I add

[00:30:16] Mel: just one thing to that piece of the conversation. And there's something about you Matt, I have to say that, I just feel like I want to talk to you for a long time. I'm not gonna do that today, but at some other point, I just feel this energy from you.

Like I need to just talk to

[00:30:30] Ish: you, Matt.

[00:30:33] Mel: Yeah. Sometimes it happens that way

[00:30:36] Matt: and you haven't even heard me talk about how we develop software now that follows this weird now map of the heart kind of past.

[00:30:43] Mel: And I don't want to talk to him about that ever.

Just kidding. No, I just wanted to add to that. Um, yes, I agree, in the idea of the change and being able to create new maps for new directions, but I think it's also important for us to recognize what hasn't changed. And it's important in the process of drawing these new metaphorical maps to understand that there's a lot in this world that we see every day that has not changed nearly as much as we would like to pretend.

And so in that vein, it can be so difficult for us to change ourselves when our environment has remained the same. And that is all the more reason to, in line with this conversation to find other people who are willing to not just be a safety net for you, because sometimes of course, we all need that, but people who are willing to tell you that you are enough; that when you take this leap, you don't need a safety net. You're enough. You already got it. We need more people like that in our lives. And I think for me, that's what, you know, everyone in this room has done, but really what I have been striving for and what I really want other people to recognize as well.

So I just wanted to give the flip to that piece of the conversation.

[00:32:20] Matt: absolutely. There's certainly that's kind of the almost inevitability of a lot of it. Is it just because it feels like everything is changing doesn't mean everything isn't is truly changing. It just, we get caught up in the exciting changes that we ignore the steadies, like a story.

That, uh, uh, I've gone through with my wife is, what is the best piece of equipment we have in our kitchen? And we have this Vitamix, it goes, we have a percolator that makes all sorts of interesting noise, but honestly, it's our toaster. We've had our toaster since we got married and it's just there and it just works.

And you know, we know how it works. We know it's steady. It's it's everything else. It's not flashy. So it doesn't make a lot of noise, but yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:07] Jocelyn: Yeah. Sorry,

[00:33:08] KJ: Matt. I don't know how you do it. You make me cry

[00:33:12] Matt: over a little toaster. It's not a brave little toaster. It's just a little toaster.

[00:33:16] KJ: Oh man.

But you just summed up for me so much. I was going to tie in what Mel was saying, which is referring to are in the, uh, theme of navigation and design. I was going to bring in this inner compass, this inner knowing that we have, where, whether things do change or don't change, we still know. We still have some point of referencing guidance that maybe isn't in, in, in, um, it's not fancy, it's not extra sexy, but a toaster, a toaster, a toaster outlines a lot.

[00:34:02] Mel: I'm laughing because, um, well, because I never thought I'd hear a toaster this may time at times in, in a podcast, but more importantly. So I guess where I was going with this was about things like racism. So I don't want to, I don't want to compare toasters to racism cause I really liked my toaster too.

But the consistency of things that haven't changed, but we tell ourselves have, have evolved; that the maps have changed and grown and expanded. When in actuality, when you look at the map, oh, Nope, this is still where the streets are. Right. And so having that knowledge is just as important as knowing that you have the ability to create something new to draw outside of those lines as well. So I'll, uh, I'll leave it there and we can go back to the toasters,

[00:34:55] Fawn: well, I want to talk about rhythm and, it really struck me what you said, Mel. Sometimes things don't change and we say they've changed and quite the other way around. And it just makes me feel like there's a rhythm too, that we may not recognize or feel at the time because we're in the midst of it. So it's hard to step away and really look at the land and see where you are.

and also we're talking about the heart maps and everything. And I always think about the heart because I, it makes me think of the culture I was born into where like the Western culture will say heart, but where I'm from, the heart is the stomach. So when someone is heartbroken, in the language I was born with, we say, my stomach feels very tight, is another expression for saying I'm homesick or I'm, I'm heartbroken.

It goes to the stomach. In talking about the different areas and the different rhythms and everything, it kind of makes me think of music. And by the way, if you all want to know how these ladies became friends, go to, KJ'S podcast and they share with you how they became friends, how they actually met and connected.

I know that you're all obsessed with music. So I want to bring music into this. I'm wondering does music, or can music play as a kind of topographical? Is that the word topographical layer? Like I know on a map, that is significant in coursing our lives. Like how does sound come into this and music come into this and.

What is the soundtrack of your life? I actually can't think of like what the soundtrack of my life is. I'm not sure, but I know you all are into Def Leppard and like, and don't get, don't get Matt started on music because then it will be here for many, many hours.

[00:37:04] Matt: But I do have a Def Leppard

[00:37:04] Fawn: story. Go ahead.

[00:37:09] Ish: Do tell, Matt. I need to hear the leopards

[00:37:13] Matt: I was in. I was in orange county, California. I went into a warehouse. I bought the best of Def Leppard on CD and I walked out, put it in my truck, put it in my CD player. My truck started listening as I was driving on the freeway home. Cause I lived in LA at that point, listening to Def Leppard.

That is when I knew without a shadow of a doubt. And I don't know why that I was gonna meet Fawn.

[00:37:42] Fawn: Photograph, he was listening to photograph and I'm a photographer. Oh.

[00:37:49] Matt: And it was a knowledge that I can't explain where it came from or how, but it gave me a great deal of comfort.

[00:37:57] KJ: Oh my goodness.

[00:37:58] Jocelyn: Awesome song.

[00:37:59] KJ: Well,

the fact that Def Leppard links us all.


[00:38:06] Mel: we have come full circle. Really.

[00:38:09] Fawn: Wow. So don't you guys think there should be another layer for the maps, which should be sound. We have, you know, the, all the different layers, right? Look, the mountains you have. I don't know the terminology for all the different kinds of maps. Well, the maps that are bumpy,

[00:38:26] Matt: there's an

infinite number of types of maps.

But when you bring a new topological layers, maybe it's looking at population densities or the, cities, or maybe it's highways, or maybe its rivers, or maybe it's, but all these things layer onto a map to, to bring it into whatever dimension it is that you need. There

[00:38:45] Fawn: should be a sound map. One of the things that happens to me is sometimes when I touch people's hands, their palms, I hear music. And with some people I'll hear drums. I love drums, it can be so radically different, the sound of a drum from person to person.

But, um, yeah, I think does, how does music play in shaping your lives in mapping out the course of your life. And do you have a soundtrack, Matt? Do you, do you have a soundtrack? My

[00:39:15] Matt: soundtrack constantly

[00:39:16] Fawn: changes you can't say

[00:39:19] Matt: that. And that's what I would say, but however, in the style of music I listen to, it's literally like the drums bring in the beat, but then the bass player starts to play with that beat and can counter beat it.

And then between the two, two guitars, everybody brings a different, sometimes it's melody, countermelody harmonies, counter harmonies. Sometimes everybody's linked up together. Sometimes everybody's fighting and then the vocals comes over the top and sometimes that's literally another instrument, and it's meant to stand in stark contrast to all the other sounds you have.

And so all of a sudden, now you have this almost like a jumble of five different sounds. But it

all works.

[00:40:03] Fawn: I like how you put that together. Like, I can't tell you what mine really sounds like, but I can tell you who is a part of it. Mine would be Pat Benatar. It would be Peter Gabriel. And Halford from, um, Judas, Judas priest.

Thank you.

Uh, I'm always going

[00:40:23] Mel: to acknowledge that I actually grew up in the eighties and so the eighties soundtrack is always in the back of my mind. And I think not just not just the sound for me songs are really, I'm so much more. I know you're talking about the sound specifically. But to me, lyrics are just are, the key are the things that are so important that draw me in, to any artist and the freedom, the feeling that I get from the words that people put into their songs, that, that emotional roller coaster that you go through.

So there's a feeling there for, if we wanted to talk about vibration and sound. The feeling that I get from the lyrics, the messaging, is the most powerful component for me. And for me, the eighties was very much about, being unique and independent and like everything was okay if we're, if we're making love or partying or for just being sad, like everything is okay.

And then, you know, most people know I'm also obsessed with Adele, so. You do with that, what you will in the eighties category. Those are the big pieces for me and Adelle, if you happen to be listening to this, I'd love to come and see you. I didn't get tickets

[00:41:45] Fawn: Adelle. Please reach out to Mel. If

[00:41:48] Mel: you can do that for me, Fawn and Matt.

[00:41:50] Fawn: Gosh, let's put a message out there. Adele, please reach out to Mel Morris. Thank you in advance. Jocelyn, how about you?

[00:42:01] Jocelyn: Well, I was thinking that music for me comes back again to the story. It's just, it's another way of mapping stories.

And I too grew up in the eighties. Um, I remember when MTV was music and just started. I mean, I remember the weekend. It. Started and all the hype around MTV and being at a friend's house. But I have older brothers who grew up on the music of the seventies. And so I, I don't remember it, but one of my older brothers, motorcycle raced and my mom would leave me with him and my stroller and he would work on his motorcycles and I grew up to the rolling stones and I still have, you know, there's a soft spot for me with Elton John Elton.

John always makes me think of my brother. Music has just the map, the map of music over my life. I can hear a song and go right back to where I was Coldplay yellow. I'm in Germany. Um, I can go back to Portugal. I can, I can connect with music, connects me to the street maps, the stories of my life in places.

I had been way stronger than many of the other

[00:43:17] Fawn: senses. I totally agree. Jocelyn. It's like the ultimate transporter music, music and smelling stuff. Yeah. Which is another question besides music. We haven't finished the music question, but before I forget, what scent, what sense of smell, what scent is more profound in your memory in your life so far, but, I don't want to forget the music question

[00:43:42] Ish: I want to hear,KJ and


[00:43:45] KJ: That could be, that could take us awhile. So, actually just this year I participated, it was my fourth year in doing so this, this year I participated in one in what's called the 100 day project. And that is, on the philosophy that you can do a little bit of something for a hundred days and say, like, write one line of a poem.

And if you do one line of a poem for a hundred days, by the end of a hundred days, you have a poem that's a hundred lines long. And so what's something might not be completed when we first start out to do it very much so has been put together through time. And so my project this year was focused on music and it was focused on the lyrics, the lyrics and stories like Jocelyn said of my life.

And I didn't move through and say like, today, I'm going to write about Tori Amos. So today I'm going to write about a Fleetwood Mac. But, what I did is I had a random organizer, one of those random org websites, where I just tossed in a bunch of numbers and whatever number came up that day reflected a list that I had of artists that I admired.

And so I would pick a song or lyrics from that artist, whatever the random generator would give for me. So it kind of took off this pressure of trying to come up with something. And I have to tell you that this project doing a hundred days of song lyrics or song memories opened up so much for me.

I'll talk about maps and timelines. Because the random generator brought me into anything from Sam Cooke to Def Leppard. I had a story for every associated memory, around a song that was generated. And so I felt like I was blown wide open this summer when I was doing this project because I was remembering as a nineties kid.

That's where really my music came in. So I was in the whole grunge place. And, you know, it's associated with first crushes, first heartbreaks and, trying to become a, a chain smoker. It never really stuck with me very well to be a chain smoker, but I tried. And, um, so there are, there are songs associated with all of these attempts of trying to be something.

And so if I were to do a timeline map and I would note what songs fell, where, oh, my word. Oh, my word. So very, very significant for me. Music.

[00:46:18] Fawn: Yeah. What about you ish? Well, I think,

[00:46:22] Ish: um, you know, thinking about this and there's, there's two aspects, so, and I think KJ really, brought out one of these aspects very nicely about how music takes you back.

You know, I'd


it helps you remember things. It


And Jocelyn talked about this too, about, about the memories, but for me, like the soundtrack of my life is a little bit of everything. I mean, there's country and you know, I mean, I love George Strait. Oh my goodness. I mean, I'm a Texas girl, so, um, but then there's Def Leppard.

I mean, like. You know, I've told the ladies, and I think we've talked about this in the podcast where like, my dad would not let me go to a high school party, but he took me and my friend and we'd go to concerts. And I'm like,

I don't know, like that probably was the smartest

thing to do, but that's what we did.

And, uh, classical music and jazz. And, even just now, like my youngest is really getting into, the blues and rhythm. Like we were listening to Miles Davis taken her to school this morning and it just, all of these different things. And just going back to this whole concept of creating something, I see a lot of people who are like, just felt like I only listened to pop or I only listened to this genre of music.

And that's what we're trying to really break free from, you know, is doing that. But Fawn, you were talking too about how in the culture you grew up in like the heart, it's like that what happens in the stomach? And like, I think about this from this perspective of mindfulness and meditation and what's going on in our bodies and how that plays out.

And there's just so much like those different layers. Matt was talking about the topography and like population density and it's like, just really being able to sort of sit back and sort of feel like, how does this sound impact me? You know? And that the sound can, you're talking about sense.

You know, how like, like some people have some really just intense, like they have a memory and they can smell like literally can smell what was happening at that time, of the memory and, all of this things that invoke. So I think it's like for me, the soundtrack is just very varied. But the sound is really important and being able to sense that and how that impacts and makes me feel in a quieter moment and like what's going on is like, I think really important. I think it's a really artful

question Fawn, I love it.

[00:48:51] Fawn: Thank you. Mel, what is your favorite music?

[00:48:54] Mel: So my favorite music or smell

[00:48:57] Fawn: both, um,

[00:49:01] Mel: my favorite music again, it, it depends. I mean, it really is like, um, I'm not a big Christmas person, but, um, my favorite Christmas song, I mean, I have like a list, like a top five Christmas songs and it's not Christmas time until I hear, the temptations silent night, like that's number one best Christmas song ever. I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

[00:49:27] Matt: What you like,

[00:49:30] Fawn: what you like

[00:49:31] Matt: father Christmas by the kinks is the greatest Christmas

[00:49:34] Fawn: song. Ooh, Mel. He's trying to argue with you like he does with me .

[00:49:37] Mel: Okay.

Listen. We can have an after show and play both and see, but I'm just saying. Um, so you know, it, it depends, it depends on my mood of what I might want to hear or what lyrics are going to speak to me or speak to where I'm trying to go or the mood I'm trying to be in.

So yeah, it really depends.

[00:49:58] Fawn: I have a different question. You guys ready? Okay. Can I go to another? Okay. All right. Um, it may just be me and if it is, we'll just go to, some other topic, but so I was born with some memory. And I had certain, images that would flash before me. I guess you can say it was memory, but I would get flashes of a scene or in this case I would get flashes of a very small portion of Matt's face and I kept seeing it.

So I would see Matt's eyes and it would be a flash that I had, but I would have certain flashes like these, that like this, that would be, it was kind of like the first memory of a particular point in the life before you much like, you know, how you map things out. And I'm of a belief that before we come here, we map things out.

And there are certain meetings and locations that are designated by us as the director. And I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss it. So when I was born from the time I was a baby and I have memories of, I told this to KJ when we first met and this proves that we were meant to be friends because I told her everything.

And she's still my friend. Cause I mean, some of the sounds, I mean, some of the things that I remember, or like, even like for me to talk about sounds really crazy; science, fictiony crazy. But that's what happened to me. Anyway. Do any of you have flashes of a map if you will, of what lay before you, what lies before you in life from an early point?

Like, did you have. Uh, certain, I don't know the terminology that's related to maps, but like not a compass, but like a little, what do you call it? The, the, their signs on the legend. Thank you guys. Any legends, or maybe if you don't remember having that memory of a legend now that you have some time to think about it, like you've been here for a few years on the planet.

Can you notice a legend that's been there for you? What's your legend?

[00:52:30] Mel: I will say that I don't have early memory. I actually, I had a pretty traumatizing in childhood, so a lot of my childhood is like completely wiped. But as I've gotten older, once I've connected, with my woo, and this is like the unofficial woo crew here, so there's nothing that you could say it's too weird for us just to say, you know, but I have what I call kind of downloads.

I don't know what an official term for them would be, but sometimes when I'm able to really settle into a meditative state, I get these, um, videos. Like they're like watching movies of me, doing things and it will be like a 20 minute thing it'll just happen. And when I finish, I'm able to write down things that I sat in, where I was, and, and I experience it with a knowing with an internal, knowing that this is going to happen. Like I've already lived this and now I'm somehow now just behind it, catching up to it. And that knowing has really allowed me to, when I get off track, when I lose focus, when I think I'm not enough, or I'm not doing the right things or this and that, knowing that like, well, you're already, you've already seen yourself.

You've already experienced yourself doing these other things. It's this, this knowing like, okay. All right. Just because you don't know how to get there yet because you haven't drawn the map to get there yet doesn't mean that it's not going to happen or that you're not on the right path, right.

You'll be able to, in hindsight, once you're there and be like, oh, okay, this is the way I did it. Let me put my little lines down. But that component has happened as I've gotten older. And again, as I've allowed myself to have that belief in me and what I experienced and, and not dismiss it and not listen to what other people might say, like that's ridiculous, or what are you talking about?

That's a wonderful question by the way.

[00:54:45] Ish: I don't

think I've had, like

when I was younger, remembers something in a past life. But I certainly have felt a sense of,


or just understanding of things that have happened before I was born in other cultures. And so I, but I can't, I, I wouldn't say like I have these like memories that kind of, I just have these feelings that I'm like, you know, that deja VU, like sort of thing, like I may read something and get a sense that like, oh, I really understand what happened.

So, so yeah, and I think that, and again, I think that the more that I meditate and the more mindfulness that I do, the more in connection with the earth that I am in Mel can really unders you know, as the, as our, as our resident mystical guru. I think that everyone before us is in the earth and having that sense, you know, connects us all to the past.

And I know that's probably pretty woo, but that's just really sort of what I've gotten down to because we all turned to dust. Right. So like, we're all I can, I can get that sense. And it's, um, it's not, it's, it's a heavy burden because I can feel the, the suffering, I can also feel the happiness, but the suffering can get, can be pretty overwhelming to,

to feel that sense.

[00:56:19] Mel: that's your Scorpio?

[00:56:22] Ish: Yes. The deep dark Scorpio in me.

[00:56:25] Fawn: Matt is a Scorpio too. Oh, you're like, don't you have Scorpio in like a whole bunch of places.

[00:56:35] Matt: All my inner planets.

[00:56:38] Mel: Oh, my gosh. KJ also has what, five, six planets in Scorpio. And

[00:56:42] KJ: if it's not Scorpio it's Libra. So,

[00:56:44] Matt: yeah. And of course, as a Scorpio, that's all who we, I don't believe any of it.

[00:56:49] Fawn: Don't believe him.

[00:56:51] Mel: You don't

[00:56:51] Matt: have to believe it for it to be true. And there you have it.

[00:56:57] Fawn: Jocelyn, what is your legend?

[00:56:59] Jocelyn: I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about what Ish just said, that we all turn to dust and I'm also thinking we all turned to energy. And if we all go back to energy, that energy is somewhere.

I mean, it could be going anywhere. I mean, it could be going, you know, it could be, it, it could be anywhere. My legend, I think is still it's the stories. I mean, I think ultimately it comes back to the stories, whether they're from past lives or now lives or future lives, that we're here to collect stories and we're sharing stories and that's really the legend of how we journey across this particular life or landscape; is, how do our stories connect, where to our stories entwine and intersect. I think certainly the four of us now, the five and the six of us where, our stories are meeting at a crossroads. , I certainly felt when I connected with, the four cartographers that there was something going on. There, there was a story shift happening.

We all met at the crossroads, the intersection of multiple states, physical and other. And, there was some serious tectonic, energy shifting. And so I thought that, you know, I felt like this story, we ha I had to jump into it. And I think we all felt that way.

There's something here that we have to jump into, and that that's pretty much my legend is that gut instinct of where is this story?

[00:58:29] Fawn: That's beautiful. You guys I've, I've like gotten loopy. Has everyone talked about their legend? I

[00:58:35] KJ: haven't said anything yet, but it can be really echoed in what has already been presented for me.

There's a familiarity. I have extremely lucid dreams where I'm pretty sure they're not dreams, but they're actual parallel happenings. And so there's a part of me. That's just like, well, that's happening and, or that's about to happen or it has happened. So there's this confidence in me that it's happened.

It's happening. It's going to happen. It's just this knowing. And then when it comes to like meeting people and being in particularly charged, I call them charged places. It's because I've known already. I've been here before, even if I've never physically set foot in a particular place in this particular lifetime or knowing I have a history there, in the same way that I know that I'm from the islands.

And I know that we all have met. I also know that we all were to work together. So there's just this certainty and this familiarity. And so when I encounter people, now that I know that I've had some sort of parallel or past knowing with, there's an instant recognition, usually it shows up in my body, meaning like, I'll, I'll feel like, like a zap or like a, a sigh of relief, almost like, oh, there you are.

Okay. I was looking for you. Cool. Um, and then similarly with places, physical places, so my legend looks a lot like, like spiral or infinity symbols, or maybe some Zappy lightning symbols of like, this is, this is charged, this is happening. That's how I can explain my map.

My legend.

[01:00:22] Fawn: Do you have much

[01:00:23] Matt: well, it's certainly an interesting thing. I used to say that, uh, I knew when I was in kindergarten that I was going to college. Not that I understood what college was and I just kind of always just, just put that on my parents, but. My brother didn't quite go the same way.

So was that me telling myself, was that a communication that I had from previous life? I don't know, things start to get very Woo and Woo is not a place that I necessarily feel comfortable because I deal so much in the realm of the mind. But if you look at things like, Dharma, the wheel of Dharma and how we're meant, we evolve in the crux of, uh, each individual life.

And there's a lot of people who believe religiously about this type of thing. And everybody seems to believe in reincarnation, even though it's not really supporting Christianity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is it enough , for so many people to believe in it? Does the Zeitgeist make it real?

So that's where my head starts going, but, uh, yeah, legend college kind of a strange one, but, and I literally knew that I was also going to graduate. So, you know, sitting down at an auditorium, somebody says, look to the left, look to the. Two of those people. Won't, won't be here when you graduate. You know, that, that wouldn't have affected me again, you know, it's because I had that knowledge, but from where, from how? So, that makes my whole path very challenging and complicated because it could be that there are these legendary events that I should know about, but I've already attributed them to things inside of this life.

[01:01:54] Fawn: You are all so deep. Honestly, I was, I mean, I, my answer to that question for myself is very literal. Like my legend, since I was born, it's like, I came here because I was searching for these eyes. I was searching for Matt, but my legend has to do with borders and boundaries and distances and countries. And one of the reasons I, one of the reasons, one of the many reasons my ears perked up when I met you all and you know, the magical cartographers was.

And once I realized what cartographer meant, I'm like, oh my God, you guys, I have had an obsession with maps my entire life, like Globes and maps. And for me, It's literally I've ever, since I can remember, I would stare at maps and just understand, trying to understand that is what the heck is happening on this planet.

You know, I've lived many times, but it's, I feel like it's my first time on planet earth. And I'm like, what? You know, I'm always asking Matt, Matt feels like he's been here many, many, many times, thousands of times, hundreds of thousands of times. Uh, this is my first time on this planet. I've been to many other universes and galaxies and I feel like, and for friends listening, I'm sorry if this sounds crazy, but here we go. Just bear with me. I feel like I came here to understand what the heck is going on with people I don't understand. The boundaries and the borders, and you can't step over this line. You what you can't respect each other's cultures or beliefs. You fight over spirit, you fight over like, it is ridiculous instead of being together and eating together and supporting one another, all this strife and anger.

What is your deal planet? I don't understand what is happening here. So my legend would be like, yeah, you know, the thing that measures from here to there with a big question, mark, like what, you know, in relation to what, what is going on with all the measurements and for you, Matt, I thought it would have to do with code.

You always notice patterns. You walk around life and you're like, did you see patterns everywhere? If you're looking for something. You can, or this is how you read to the girls too. You guys barely look at a page and you've read the whole page. Meanwhile, I try to open a book and I still have to get tested for dyslexia or something.

Cause I'm like, oh, read one sentence. I'm like, wait, what was that again? And I'll read it again. And I'm reading it like how a person speaks. So I'm very slow, you know? Like you can just go boom. There it is.

[01:04:45] Matt: What you need to read better. You need to read more interesting books. Cause I hit the same problem when I read books that no word to answer.


[01:04:53] Jocelyn: you

[01:04:53] Fawn: saying I don't read

[01:04:54] Matt: enough saying you need to read cooler books.

[01:04:57] Fawn: No, I've read many diff no, no. My brain operates differently. That's all. Anyway. I don't know why we've just fallen on it's your birthday? January 25th.

[01:05:06] Ish: Fawn, I feel

like you are, um, you see things in photographs though

[01:05:15] Fawn: in pictures. By the way,

[01:05:18] Ish: hearing your stories in some way, the reason you're drawn to be a photographer, you are a photographer is because you're trying to find those images that are familiar to you.

[01:05:32] Fawn: I was looking for a family, honestly, I was photographing family members and my last big project was my book, which was a global family photo album. And I put all the world's religions together along with sayings of great mystics. And I put it into a book, a family photo album. That's totally the reason, but it's so funny because I don't really see what I'm photographing.

I feel it. And I know when to take the picture, but I, I couldn't tell you. Anything, I couldn't tell you what the person's eye color was. I couldn't tell you what their hair color was. I'm like I could get hit by a bus, not know. Do you know what I mean? I'm not seeing anything. I'm feeling it. When I was in college, I took acting courses and acting classes and, um, I, one day one of our assignments was to go out on the street and pick someone at random.

Someone we don't know on the streets and come back to class as that person. We weren't allowed to talk to the person or to meet them at all. Just someone you noticed on the street, some stranger. And so this one day I saw this blind man walking with a cane, holding a big box of photographic paper, and I came to class as a blind photographer.

And that's how I feel. I'm like, I'm not, it's, it's all about feeling for me, you know, just trying to. That is, that

[01:07:04] Mel: is the epitome of, of Aquarius energy. Just FYI. I mean, I don't, I don't know what the rest of your chart looks like, but Aquarius is all about energy and frenetic energy sometimes. But really that life lesson is that you're not meant to fit in.

I have, I have a grandson, that's an Aquarius and you're, you're not, you're not meant to fit. You're not going to fit in. And the last, the hard lesson that you have to learn is that it's just, you're not going to ever fit in the way that you think fitting in is let me rephrase it that way, your family be it naturally birth into or chosen.

You have to change the way you think fitting in to a family, what that means, because it looks different for you than for the rest of us. So just know that, but yeah, that energy does connect us all and you more than most, um, especially married to a Scorpio, I'll just say, that deep wanting to know more and for you, that energy is gonna always be abundant.

[01:08:17] Fawn: That is very perceptive. That's totally me to a T not fitting in ever. I don't that, but that's what makes you amazing enough about me?

You guys? Oh my God. No. Well,

[01:08:35] KJ: yes. I wanted to check in with Matt. How are you feeling friends?

[01:08:41] Matt: I'm good.

[01:08:42] KJ: Yeah, it's late. That's the other reason I know you. And I usually talk in the mornings and so this is a totally different vibe to be hanging out,

[01:08:52] Matt: but you're also on the podcast. You know, I spend a lot of my time, very leaned back.

I spend a lot of my time really pondering things, people say so, so I have witty things to say back. Um, so it, it is, it is a different energy. Um, yeah, as far as things go,

[01:09:11] Fawn: you're doing amazing. Do you guys want to wrap this up soon? Is there anything you all want to say? Like any particular, anything before we wrap up?

[01:09:21] Mel: I I'll just say that. I love the fact

[01:09:25] Fawn: that

[01:09:27] Mel: regardless. I mean, especially Matt in this conversation, I, I thank you and applaud you for being a, around all of this strong. Strong feminine energy because we are not demure, not any of us in this space. But, being able to have conversations about all the things about everything, right.

About not just one, this is my perspective, and this is all that I need to know about or want to have a conversation about. I think it's so important that we are open to having conversations about things that maybe aren't naturally in our wheelhouse, right. Or that you wouldn't have necessarily naturally thought about or maybe even agreed with.

But the willingness to have conversation is really so important. And to me, what creates friendships, what creates opportunities for friendship is that openness and willingness. I, I'm just loving everything about this


[01:10:33] Fawn: I love every word. I love listening to you all. I want all our friends out there to really seek you out because you are beautiful human beings.

And I just want to say that life can be very challenging. There've been so many times I have been so scared and I couldn't see my way I could not see or know of other choices or paths I could take. That is why friendship is so important. We're here to help each other and.

Friends are there to help when things get really bad. And the more we are different, the more collective vantage points we have, the better we're able to put all the pieces together. And I just want to say, thank you. Thank you for welcoming me in to your friendship circle because it has truly given me not only more strength, but like a salve over my heart that was burning

and sad, even though I'm like heading up this whole, like let's change the world by bringing back the art of friendship and trying to reeducate all of us about what friendship really is. I, myself. I have been burned so much. And like I said, I wasn't thinking of this whole movement for myself.

I just wanted to help other people. And you all came across my path thanks to KJ. And I just want to let you know how much you've helped me and, and soothed my spirit. And I really appreciate you all. And I so appreciate you coming to our podcast, coming to talk to us, coming to our kitchen over here.

I know it's past Matt bedtime, so just keep harping

[01:12:33] Matt: that. All

[01:12:33] Fawn: right.

All right. Well, thank you so much for being here, everybody. I really appreciate you.

[01:12:41] Ish: Thank you Fawn.

And thank you, Matt, for having us on. These are the conversations that we want to have and we want people to really think about, , for themselves and, and open. And, you know, I'll say this because I think this is really important. I want to go back as you talking about self care.

Um, and you know, like being kind of like annoyed with the whole, like when KJ was like, come do the self care and I understand why people get angry with that. But the best self care is when you can know yourself, it's not the yoga, it's not any of that stuff. Self care is about really knowing yourself and finding the people who will support you for being you.

And I think that that's what us for and as five, and now Matt, we're gonna, you know, you're,

[01:13:31] Fawn: you're part of us now. Oh my God. Oh man. That's a big deal. Scared that, you know.

[01:13:41] Ish: Yeah. We all met and came together, but it was really one person meeting one person and talking and then meeting the next person. And then all of us kind of, so it's one person at a time.

So that's, that's really the change, you know, the change that can happen. I just, I thank you so much Fawn, for inviting us because this,

this has been great.

[01:14:10] Fawn: Well, this is just the beginning, but what we have eight

[01:14:14] Jocelyn: more times to catch

[01:14:16] Mel: up with

[01:14:16] Fawn: that KJ. I know now

wouldn't it be great if there was one podcast for all the millions of people talking at the same time. On one, one episode company together? No,

[01:14:34] Matt: it would be a long episode

[01:14:36] Mel: that makes my brain

[01:14:37] Fawn: hurt too much. Or at least all the magical cartographers of the world United. I mean, that's a little better, a little more pinpointed, a

[01:14:50] Mel: lot of energy, but all

[01:14:52] Fawn: better.

Good energy though. It's a party. It's a party. The planet is a party sometimes it's, it gets out of hand like it is right now. And, um, do you guys think what, before we go, what's your state of the world view what's going on?

[01:15:11] Matt: Well, that's a small

10 seconds.

[01:15:18] Fawn: Well, what has happened?

[01:15:21] Mel: We need a part two. That's a huge

[01:15:23] Fawn: question. All right. We'll do a part two, nevermind, but

everybody calm


[01:15:28] Matt: I would like to conclude by saying father Christmas by the kinks, best Christmas song ever. Careful. When you first, when you listen to it, the first 30 seconds you're going to be like, okay, obviously Matt is a crazy person.

You have to get to the line, that rhymes time and wine, and then it will all make sense. But that's way at the tail end of the song,

[01:15:50] Mel: I'm willing to listen. As long as you go ahead and listen as well to all the way through. It's a very long song, all the way to the very end when they, when the temptations thank everyone.

Oh, I'm

[01:16:03] Matt: sure it's beautiful, but it does. It does it absolutely Christmas the same way, father. I just want you to feel it.

[01:16:09] Mel: Yes. I promise.

[01:16:12] Fawn: Can we

[01:16:14] Mel: yours, Matt.

[01:16:14] Fawn: Okay. You got it? I can't wait to listen to it. I've heard yours, Matt. No, thank you. It makes me

[01:16:22] Matt: nuts. The last line, if I thought we can get

[01:16:24] Fawn: away with it, but we can't.

Yeah, we get charged. We can't do it. We can't sing on the podcast. All right, guys, we will be in touch on the podcast. You guys will come back to our table. I hope. Yes, absolutely. Our home is your home, our kitchen wallah, our map. Thank you everyone. Thank you for everything we love you.

Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you in a few days. Take care everyone. Oh, and don't forget the show notes. Okay. Talk to you later. Bye bye-bye. Hi.


KJ Nasrul

psychotherapist, musician , podcast host

Kimberly "KJ" Nasrul is a licensed psychotherapist and musician nursing an obsession with words...and a gift for making grilled cheese sandwiches. She helps healers and essential frontline workers recover their resilient stories via music, art and compassionate conversations so that they can continue to uplift and heal their communities.
When she's not planning her next traveling adventure, kJ can be found on her podcast Stories of Astonishing Light jamming with musicians, artists and trailblazers about creativity and mental wellness accessibility for all communities.
KJ’s a Disaster Mental Health Responder (Psychological First Aid) and Quality Improvement Specialist for personal health privacy (so sexy, right?).