Jan. 17, 2022

Making, Baking, and Breaking Bread Together - The Gata, with Joseph Krikorian

Making, Baking, and Breaking Bread Together - The Gata, with Joseph Krikorian

This is a longer show for a reason. We begin before Joey shows up by expressing some emotional stress and turmoil that happened to us this past week from fires to blizzards, to another case of Fawn experiencing some more racism, yet another mass shooting in Colorado, to all the other stuff. We talk about how important it is to clear the air before we meet our friends, before a ceremonial time together. So we do this before Joey shows up.
When Joey shows up, we discuss the importance of ceremony, the importance of learning and respecting each other's cultures and history, Star Wars, why pronunciation is such a trigger, and then we continue talking as we make, bake, and break the Gata Bread. Just press pause when you need to and come back and make sure you hear all of this episode (where you'll learn to make the most amazing ancient dessert) and make sure you are present for the last 30 minutes as we come to a very special understanding about get-togethers in life.
Some Links:
To support our show (buy us a cup of coffee) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/friendlyspace

To reach Joey: 
To reach Andrew Janjigian
Pictures and recipe for Gata – Thank you, Andrew Janjigianhttps://www.seriouseats.com/gata-5185123

If you want a website like ours:

This is a longer show for a reason. We begin before Joey shows up by expressing some emotional stress and turmoil that happened to us this past week from fires to blizzards, to another case of Fawn experiencing some more racism, yet another mass shooting in Colorado, to all the other stuff. We talk about how important it is to clear the air before we meet our friends, before a ceremonial time together. So we do this before Joey shows up.

When Joey shows up, we discuss the importance of ceremony, the importance of learning and respecting each other's cultures and history, Star Wars, why pronunciation is such a trigger, and then we continue talking as we make, bake, and break the Gata Bread. Just press pause when you need to and come back and make sure you hear all of this episode (where you'll learn to make the most amazing ancient dessert) and make sure you are present for the last 30 minutes as we come to a very special understanding about get-togethers in life.

Some Links:

To reach Joey: 






To reach Andrew Janjigian

Pictures and recipe for Gata – Thank you, Andrew Janjigian




Preshow therapy Transcript

[00:00:00] Fawn: Our sweet friend, Joey is coming here soon in like a few minutes. And one of the things we always talk about is the art of being a good host. I feel like I needed to talk with you all before Joey comes. So before a friend comes, have you ever experienced this? When you've had a hard time with something, it could be anything, but you're having a hard time meaning that maybe you're not in the best mood and that you need to process something first before you open up the doors and go, hi.

Yay. Our friend is here. Right.

[00:00:38] Matt: So no, and I get that, but you know, being raised in a more Germanic household, we just compartmentalize,

[00:00:44] Fawn: well, I don't. And before, before sweet Joey comes, I need to express, I need to communicate what's been bothering me the past few days. Yesterday was Elle's birthday. Right?

The day before that I had to take her for immunizations. I got into a really bad mood. Like I wasn't expressing it to anyone, but it was a seed. Something was bothering me and it was starting to build. Every time I experienced any form of microaggression or macro aggression. It takes me by surprise because every time I process it, I'm like, okay, that's done. I'm not going to continue with this baggage. I'm going to clear it and I'm moving on as if that was just a one-time occurrence.

Right. And I'm not going to invite that into my circle again, but what happens is it does come up again and I feel so shocked and surprised by it that it takes me a good many, many hours for me to understand for me to understand why I'm upset. I have to figure out where did this come from? So it takes a while for me to understand where it came from.

So here we are, again; every time I take our kids to the pediatrician or anywhere, actually I get the. Uh, I get accosted, if you will. I don't know. Maybe that's too harsh of a word, but to my heart is not, it is not a harsh word. I feel accosted. It's the way that the medical staff will treat me by not looking at me when I'm speaking, trying to give them vital information about either you or the kids.

They ignore me and I'm treated like, an undesirable. So, and that happened again. It was the day before L's birthday. They don't look at me. They ignore me. They'll looked at Elle when I asked a question. And it's just, I don't want to get into it too much. I just want to get this off my chest before our sweet friend comes, because I don't want to have a lingering energy of upsettedness when we have company over.

Right. And even if that is company in the form of lovely Joey showing up on zoom and we're going to bake bread together today. So the next day was Elle's birthday. And I was so overwhelmed with all the, I started to replay all the things that have accumulated for me. And I wasn't even aware that I was doing it, but usually first for anyone's birthday,

I go into ceremony mode. I bake a special cake and it's a ceremonial cake, much like the kind of bread that we're doing today. It is a big deal. I put up decorations I'm up until probably 4:30 5 in the morning, finishing the cakes, putting the decorations up, making sure that everything looks honored like the person is being honored.

Right. And I just didn't have it in me to even think about doing it. And in the morning when I woke up, I heard whispering you and Alegra were whispering about putting up the decorations. And I felt so bad, Matt. I felt so bad that I forgot to do all that. And I was trying to figure out why, like, why would I forget that?

Why would I not do that? I've done it every, for every occasion. Right. But I was just like overwhelmed, I guess. And then, so I thought, okay, well let me freshen it up. Then we actually put on some sparkles in the form of like makeup, like sparkles on my eyes, put my hair up

[00:04:52] Matt: your sparkly

[00:04:52] Fawn: blouse. Well before the sparkly blouse, I actually wore a dress that I got, a beautiful festive dress and I put it on and I'm like, I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, oh no, because I still see my body the way it was when we were doing martial arts.

When I felt fit before I had two very sloppy C-sections and I looked at my stomach, I'm like, I can't wear this dress that I got, like I can't wear anything and I don't know, friends out there, especially women that can destroy you and that puts you in a bad mood and it makes you like, not want to communicate with others.

There's just so much associated with that. There's shame. There's resentment. There's like all these feelings show up because of a C-section. Um, scar or a C-section like bubble that is now on your body. And then I started to, now that I think about it, cause I had time to think. I started to think of like all the things and all the ways that have caused some harm to me by other people.

So I started to think, oh my God, this is why I'm in a bad mood. It started with being at the medical appointment with, for Elle and I, and I, and it's her birthday. And I thought, you know, her birthday is a joy Joe with joyous, joyous occasion. And I started to think I'm like, wow, really? If I'm honest, it was not a joyous experience for me.

Her birth was. Yes. The, the welcoming of Elle was a joyous occasion, but it was not for me joyous. I was mistreated from the beginning, the way the staff, the hospital treated us. Do you remember? They would ignore me. They ignored you guilty by association. Um,

[00:06:58] Matt: yeah, I remember. And I remember all the

[00:07:01] Fawn: trauma.

Remember the nurse came in and we said, hello. She wouldn't even look at us and say hello back. Um, she kept reusing the needle. For some reason, my vein was making it pop back out. She would touch the needle, fidget with it and Jap me with it again, over and over and over again. And I, I remember saying is that sanitary???.

Ignored me didn't even look at me. And then not long after that, the symptoms started to come on of like an infection and immediately the hospital was blaming us saying, oh, well you waited too long to come here. Where in fact, my water broke at the hospital, not anywhere else. And I don't know, we can get into the specifics of it.

Like I wish that I'm not sueing type, but I wish I could have had the power to Sue this hospital for the way that we got treated for two weeks, it was all day, every day for two weeks, mishap after mishap, where I almost died and Elle almost died. We had the friggin priest come to give us the last rights.

What do you call that? When the priest shows up to give the last prayer before someone passes away, they brought that person in, you know, and it was just so traumatic and we had thank God, some angels that helped us out. Right. But all that came to surface and I thought, I can't be totally joyous.

You know, like I forgot about all these memories. And so as we were baking the cake together, cause I hadn't even baked the cake that night. You were helping me Allegra was helping me and it's, it's not like we have the biggest kitchen and I am, I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to the kitchen, especially like, I like things just so, I have my way of doing things and I taught them to Allegra, and then you come into the mix and it was getting too much for me.

And all of a sudden, I just burst into tears.

[00:09:15] Matt: Right. Yeah. No, and I completely get it, but see, it's almost like you're missing stuff. you know, what happened to the nation on January 6th?

[00:09:25] Fawn: What happened to us on January 6th? Isn't that when Chris passed away two days before

[00:09:29] Matt: January 5th, so, and I had a beer on him this week, this year, because that's what I do.

And I don't neglect that at all, but it is a moment for me. So three

[00:09:39] Fawn: days before Elle was born Matt's best friend passes away. And he was three states away,


[00:09:48] Matt: age, same everything.

[00:09:51] Fawn: So like you had to process that would you didn't process the birth of your first child, right.

[00:09:58] Matt: And honestly, Still processing that, but I think I'm better about things.

And then there's, you know, all the baggage that comes along with January 1st and all the baggage that comes along with a Christmas time thing. I mean, there's just, there's an interesting amount of

[00:10:15] Fawn: stuff and think about it just days before, we had the fires in Boulder, which is you're in Boulder. So we had to once again, pack an escape bag.


[00:10:27] Matt: we're not evacuated though. Thank

[00:10:29] Fawn: goodness we were not, but we had to make sure that we were ready to go. And I know people who were so we know people who are yes. Um, but we, you know, it was still in our county. And then days before that we had yet another mass shooting, you know, it was just too much.

[00:10:48] Matt: Right. And, and I feel that I remember then that's why you got nothing but sympathy for me yesterday. I remember I hit a point where I was overwhelmed and it was like that one thing hit. And this was when we were living here and I accidentally, whatever you want to call it. I went through a speed camera and it, and it caught me.

So you see the flash and you're like, son of a, and that was, that was like the last. The straw that I had that day. Now that happened to me when I'm feeling resilient, I'm feeling strong and feeling together. That's another story. It's just like damn bad luck. But when it's that one more thing, when you think that you've got everything under control and you don't,

[00:11:31] Fawn: and you know, it was a couple of days before Elle's birthday.

So we had to take care of Al's health, like Al was not doing well. And I had to deal with all these forms and finding the right therapist for her and all this stuff. And I had so many emails from work, all the, so many things I had to do for everything right along with the medical stuff. And I was feeling overwhelmed that I couldn't even look at the emails.

Like I was looking at them, but I didn't know what. I just felt stuck. I didn't, I was like going in circles and I went to you. I'm like, Matt, I know you're working. You're the one making the money. And you have a lot on your plate because your job is also, it's not, it's not, it's not bad. It's, it's just that you have a lot going on.

You have a lot of responsibility, but I'm like, look, I'm breaking. And you said, I can't deal right now.

[00:12:32] Matt: So you, but you make it sound all rational, right? That was not what you said. You did not say I'm breaking.

[00:12:39] Fawn: I did. What did I say from your perspective? And we got to hurry up because Joey is going

[00:12:45] Matt: to be here soon and I get it and, and we're just going to get into it.

If I start down that road,

[00:12:49] Fawn: whatever you have your perspective. I had

[00:12:52] Matt: a screaming fit that day at my computers. I know. Never scream at my computers. All right. I was so frustrated. You have no

[00:13:02] Fawn: idea. I do have an idea, cause we're all right there and you know what? I also feel that and you think I lose my head all the time, but I actually keep my head quite together most of the time, because you have no idea the turmoil that I'm going through.

I'm keeping it quiet. But anyway, so we got into a fight and I said, just forget it. I guess I'll deal with it myself. And once again, I went and called, thank God Holly, who calmed me down and like helps me like task by task, figure it out. And she said, okay, this do this, this, you don't need to do this. So

get that off your plate. She helped me, I guess, the word for it would be prioritize and like get rid of things that I really don't need to be thinking about. So I did that and I was able to face it. Thank God for a friend like Holly. Um, but like, ah, I just feel like this needs to be expressed, especially before

a friend comes over because they feel it. So in order to have proper ceremony in order to be a good guest or a good host, you need to just communicate these things before someone comes over. Because before that, if you keep going with what you're experiencing the turmoil, and if you don't express it guaranteed, even if you put a smile on your face and like you have all the festive things.

Your friends, your guests will sense it and it's weird and it's gross and they can't put their finger on it. Right. So I just wanted to clear that before Joey comes and just express all that, still leaving my heart right now, I'm trying to clear it. Right. But I just want to say it has been a trying time. And just when we think, okay, that has been cleared.

We're okay. It's time to move on, man. Some little thing will happen. Right. And all these emotions come bubbling back up.

[00:15:09] Matt: Oh my God. Like a tsunami. It's the final straw. I totally get it.

[00:15:14] Fawn: So, all right. Joey is going to be here in a few minutes He's here now, actually, um, So, okay. Friends, before the show starts, just wanted to get some things off of our

[00:15:27] Matt: chests.

Welcome to a tiny little sliver of the, let it out

[00:15:31] Fawn: club. All right. So now we're going to start the show. Okay. Thanks for listening guys. And hopefully I'm not the only one that feels this way. I just wanted to share this with you all that, it's hard sometimes, and this is how we go on to have a happier.

More, uh, celebratory gathering. All right. Well, okay. We'll see you in two. Okay.

[00:15:53] Matt: But you got to tell

[00:15:54] Fawn: me, you love me, honey. Love is winning.. Oh, you do.

Making, Baking and Breaking Bread with Joey Part 1 Transcript

[00:00:00] Matt: Dating or before we started dating, uh, my, my, my wife to be thought she was being tricksy.

[00:00:06] Fawn: why do

you say that? Why do you always say my wife or my wife? It's me right here. Fawn, Fawn geesh

[00:00:14] Matt: Fawn, totally had spaced out on my last name. And so she asked me, well, how do you pronounce,

[00:00:24] Fawn: hold on. It's not that I spaced out on your last name.

When we first met Matt, very ceremonially hands me his business card,

[00:00:31] Matt: power move,

[00:00:32] Fawn: but like, the ceremonial Japanese way to hand someone, the business card, you know, with both hands and then you were supposed to receive it with both hands, look at it and then put it in a very respectful place.

It was right after our Aikido, school day. And he's like, oh, here's my card. And he very ceremoniously gives me his card. Well, I was not feeling ceremonial around that time. So I said, okay, cool, thanks. And I just took it and I put in my bag, I didn't look at it. I never looked at it because I'm not impressed by titles and everything.

And I think he wanted me to see if you had the power move. Yeah. There's grand master, like major software

[00:01:17] Matt: developers, the Senor on it. That's the key.

[00:01:19] Fawn: I didn't look at it. Honest truth. And so when I had to meet Matt for lunch date, which we were just friends, when we were going to meet at a lunch date as friends,

she was

[00:01:31] Matt: going to stop by the office and we were going to go

for lunch.

[00:01:33] Fawn: And I thought, oh my God, how am I going to find Matt in this big office building? So I asked him, how do you pronounce your last name?

[00:01:42] Matt: Because she couldn't remember my last name,

[00:01:45] Fawn: because I never knew your last name because I never looked at your card. So I thought, well, he probably has, oh, weird last name.

Pronunciation of names is really weird no matter what, except for yours, honey. Well, Anderson Anderson. So when I said, oh, how do you pronounce your name again? Cause it was my tricky way to find out what his last name was so I could find it on the directory. Go ahead. So I

[00:02:08] Matt: just laughed.

Yep. Yeah, of course. But the thing was, is I did tell her there was another Matt in my office, but that was Matt Pack

[00:02:16] Fawn: but all this, because we were trying to figure out the name of the original recipe that we found that we're following that we're actually totally veering away from, by the way, because we were making to make it vegan.

But the recipe is originally from Andrew, Janjigian, we don't know, we don't know how to pronounce it.

[00:02:37] Matt: Sorry if we

[00:02:37] Fawn: mispronounced that one. Sorry, Andrew, please let us know how you pronounce your last name. But we were talking about, you can tell who is in your circle if they can pronounce your name and Joey was saying.

Back in the day a telemarketer would call.

[00:02:52] Joey: Yeah, a telemarketer. I mean, is anyone familiar with the comedian Mike Birbiglia? Standup comedian, because he does a bit about this and it's spot on, where a telemarketer will call and then look at your last name and be like, oh man.

And that's pretty much the vibe. Every time got everything from like people trying to, obviously people not trying Kirky corn was one that sticks out in my memory. I mean, all you got to do was really just like read the name, but it, but it also provided the opportunity, like you knew who to hang up on.

Right? Yeah.

[00:03:32] Matt: That, that, that would be nice and simple for sure. And in point of fact, in the computer industry, we know there's a technology called Shibboleth and this actually stems from back in, I think what's now Israel, there was one language where they couldn't actually say Shibboleth and that's how they would make you say Shibboleth and if he couldn't pronounce it right, then they knew that you were not of their, your, they were not of your tribe.

So you knew they were a spy. So it's interesting. Some

[00:04:00] Joey: gate keeping bullshit right there.

[00:04:04] Fawn: Totally. That's how I can tell if someone will be racist towards me. If, if I hear them mispronounce the country, Iran, you know, if they say"I/ran" (putting the emphasis on a long I) , uh, I'm like, oh, here we go. Usually, you know, like I, my, my guard is up

[00:04:20] Joey: early two thousands politics pronunciation.


[00:04:24] Fawn: forever. Joey, like, well, since I was a kid, um, so that's one that, that is one red flag that will pop up for me. And as soon as someone who, like my friend, Emily, that I became friends this year, who's coming on the show, she's an artist, she's a children's book, author illustrator. Um, and she also makes children's games.

You're going to have great conversation with her. Um, we were talking and I never said anything about Iran. I never said that's where I was from. But she suddenly started talking about Iran and she pronounced it perfectly. And I'm like, I already knew I loved her. Like, it was like love at first sight for us.

Like we became friends like that. But when I heard her pronounce one word properly my heart, I ha I released like such walls I didn't even know I had, even with Emily. When I heard her say it the way she did, I just felt such relief. And you know, when you feel relief, you don't even realize that you had been so clinched before, and then you feel relief.

You're like, oh my God, thank you. Like, it makes you want to cry when someone pronounces something properly, especially your name or where you come from

[00:05:42] Joey: and the opportunity for people to understand that, like the people who care to learn will listen to this or listen to someone like you talk about it in that way and understand how it should be said or what the pronunciation should be.

And the people who don't care. Won't like, I'm not sure that I knew how to pronounce it correctly, but I mean, understanding now what the correct pronunciation is and, and what it means to people is huge. And, uh, you know, it's just the progress of learning, just learning, right. And, and the perspective from other people and understanding that.

Yeah. Understanding how to progress.

[00:06:27] Fawn: Oh my God. That I think the key word for me is understanding because you can learn and learn and learn, but to understand means you're, you've clicked into it. You're connected to it

[00:06:39] Matt: IQ more in, on progress, but yes.

[00:06:42] Fawn: So everyone, your friend, our beautiful friend, Joey is back Joey Krikorian.

Hello, Krikorian. If Persian people with Ian is how you do the last part. Krikorian welcome back, Joey,

[00:06:59] Joey: Thank you,

[00:07:01] Fawn: I'm

[00:07:01] Joey: happy to be here.

[00:07:01] Fawn: Here so excited for today. Everybody we're going to bake bread and we're going to make bread and break bread together. As we continue the conversation about how we express ourselves, our culture, and specifically speaking about the beautiful Armenian culture and the beautiful history and country that is Armenia and our beautiful sweet friend, Joey, going back to his roots, being Armenian bringing to the table, everything that, that entails and bringing back to our table, his great-grandfather and his great-grandmother.

Here we go. So today, We are talking about once again, the breaking of bread, our kids are here in the kitchen because they want it to be a part of this. So it's going to be a wild show. Hold on everyone. The last time we talked about this, not the after show, but the podcast that we did with you regarding the root of the matter, Joey, by the way, Joey, is a star geologist.

[00:08:02] Joey: I don't know how much of a star I am, but I am a Star Wars fan and geologists who, if you combine all of my passions and hobbies, we can put that together.

[00:08:13] Fawn: And he has this amazing podcast.

[00:08:16] Matt: Yeah, go ahead, babe.

[00:08:17] Fawn: Krypton to Alderaan.

[00:08:19] Matt: She did it.

[00:08:20] Fawn: I did it right. I said, well done. Oh my God, I get so many things talking about mispronunciation.

I'm always nervous because blaspheme I get Star Wars and Star Trek mixed up, like, okay, I, I apologize. Krypton to Alderaan. " Happy Apple Vegan," our friend, Wendy is into what you're talking about and your podcast as well. Shout out to Wendy. She's this amazing writer.

Amazing. She creates recipes. She's a dear friend of ours, very talented writer, reporter, amazing person, amazing all around person and her son, her husband, Dave, I'm telling you, you guys are going to be best friends. So much in common anyway, so she's totally into the Star Wars thing.

[00:09:08] Joey: Is she the person who commented on your posts on your Instagram posts about our episode? Yes. Yeah. That was really great to see. So thanks Wendy. And she also mentioned checking out, "A Hundred Year Walk," which is great to see. It's great to see people listening and taking stuff like that in.

So yeah, I'd love anybody who reads the book. I'd love to talk to anyone about it also in just a real quick aside in our new podcasters meeting this past week that Fawn and I are a part of our other podcast friend, John invited me on his podcast, Collecting Confidence. And he said he specifically wanted to record with me so that he could hear my chickens in the background.

And I don't know if you guys can hear this right now, but. It's happening for you there? I'm in my kitchen. The coop is right outside the kitchen window here, and we have a rooster and he's going bonkers. It's very loud. So you're getting the full experience.

[00:10:11] Fawn: I have not heard him. Have

[00:10:12] Matt: you heard him? No, not at all.

[00:10:15] Joey: Well, we see these zoom, maybe zoom noise, cancels, roosters.

[00:10:21] Fawn: I'm trying to listen.

I love chickens and roosters. They crack me up.

[00:10:30] Matt: Well, yes, but we also don't hear them all the time. I don't know how I'd feel about it if I heard them all the time, but

[00:10:35] Fawn: the first time I heard a rooster like for real, I was in Ethiopia on a photo shoot in the middle of nowhere and to zip in and out of all the various different tents within tents that I had to keep away from the mosquitoes and what out, whatever else I'm afraid of the nature.

I heard the rooster and I had that cartoon image of a rooster. Like every time you hear a rooster, it means that they've seen the sun. So it's time to get up. I'm like, well, it's time to get up. And it took me forever to zip and unzip and zip, zip, zip, and put on my boots and everything and zip. So nothing gets into my tent.

And then I walked out after all that effort, I'm like, it's pitch black out here. What is the rooster talking about? I looked at my watch. I'm like, oh my God, it's two in the morning. I


[00:11:26] Matt: waiting to go well-played

[00:11:29] Fawn: Any other housekeeping before we start, are we ready to go

[00:11:33] Joey: ready to

[00:11:33] Fawn: rock and roll?

All right. We and our lovely daughters are here. Elle and Allegra are here ready to bake everybody. We're going to make and break bread together. I

[00:11:47] Joey: want to make, we should start a, I get on that shake and bake marketing, but make it make and

[00:11:55] Fawn: break. There's a new podcast

[00:12:00] Matt: and break.

[00:12:02] Joey: Perfect.

[00:12:03] Fawn: Our last show, we were talking about bridging the gaps with food and how food not only brings back memory, maybe the latent memory we didn't even know was there. If we can't get answers from our ancestors, from our great grandparents or parents, if we can't understand why we do what we do, how our ceremonies are brought about, where do things come from?

This is what I discovered. If we get into the food and the preparation of food and how we do things and how we use certain spices or certain ingredients and why, and what's the meaning of this. I think that innate memory comes back to us by osmosis.

Like, it will just get translated to you. It's not the word, osmosis

[00:12:53] Matt: water or semipermeable memory, of course.

[00:12:58] Fawn: But like I say it that way, because I had such a hard time in high school, like I would study study, study, and it would still get like a D or D minus. I never understood, like what, what is it? And then, and then, so I had another friend who is an artist like me and she was having the same trouble and we would cry, like, what's wrong with us?

We're studying. And these other guys don't even study and they get A's and so my friend said, I wish I had what they had because they must have some sort of osmosis happening. And ever since then, I'm like, yeah, OSMOSIS. Like we can just touch a book and we just understand

how to answer a questions on a quiz or a test, but anyway, I digress. So it's about the bridging of the gaps and, and how food is really our connector and that food, I love the way you said this last time, Joey, that food has become kind of like a destination thing. We were talking about Chinese food.

We were talking about how in school we would get ridiculed or teased or bullied because of our different choice of food in our lunch bags. . They would make fun of us. And then Joey, you were saying last time that, part of you doesn't even want to share your food now, now that everybody's like into trying different types of food. By the way, are you hearing our Kettle? Sorry about that. You're going to hear all kinds of kitchen noise today. In the background. So we were talking about, yeah, initially we may feel like that, but once we work through it, we will be at a table again, sharing recipes, stories, scents, tastes and really coming back to understanding each other again and having that connection.

And I think that's key that is key to friendship. It's also key to having a healthier, that is such a loud tea kettle. Having a healthier society. One where we can understand one


[00:14:59] Joey: I think, I don't know if we were recording at this point, but we were talking a little bit earlier in this conversation about understanding and progress.

And I think that's also a key to progress. Right? We have to, sometimes I, like I said, it in terms of like, I'm sort of a spiteful new Yorker and I'm like, no, this is mine now. You didn't want it before you can't have it now. Right. But perhaps getting past that within reason, you know, uh, and breaking bread, as we say is a key to progress.

[00:15:36] Fawn: Absolutely. More on the breaking bread. It's really interesting how throughout all cultures, if I'm correct, all cultures break bread, because the last time Matt, you were talking about the Bible and the Christian and Jesus, you know, the sharing, but I was saying, Hey, you know, on Shabbat Jewish people break bread, we have challah , which is this beautiful braided egg bread. Breaking bread regardless of where you're from for everyone, it is a spiritual ceremony done to connect, to welcome and to honor and that's what we're going to do today with the Gata bread, the Gata bread. Uh, you guys, I remember having this as a Persian kid because, you know, Persian Armenians, I always felt this, brotherhood sisterhood. So I loved the God of bread. It is this beautiful, sweet bread. And it's gorgeous to there was this one woman who found that these stamps go back, millennium, millenniums. How do you say it? Many millennia millennia, millennia.

Thank you. People usually think that bread, the baking bread came about like 10,000 years ago. Like archeologists are like, oh yeah, it's 10,000 years old. Well, this one woman archeologist, uh, her name guys. I'm going to mispronounce it. Bear with me and apologies in advance.

Uh, apologies major in advance. It's Amaia Arranz-Otaegui. This is how you spell her name. A M a I a and her last name, her family name is Arranz-Otaegui mispronouncing it again. Please forgive me. But the spelling is a R R a N Z dash O T a E G U I. She's an archeologist. She found breadcrumbs that are much, much older than the 10,000 years.

Previous archeologists have said, oh yeah, the bread is 10,000 years. She found you guys like, like crumbs that you find in a toaster. She found crumbs that go back 4,000 years before, so 14,000 years. But here's the thing when you were really trying to read as much about Armenian culture as possible, I've found that, Armenians, first of all, Armenians have been considering bread as a sacred food for centuries, starting from this second millennium BC. And they're the sweetest bread is this God of bread that we're making today.

[00:18:21] Joey: You know, it's interesting. We also have a braided sweet bread, like Challah. Choereg I think it's, I don't know how to pronounce it.

Yeah. It's like a sweet Easter bread and I believe sometimes it's braided in, sometimes it's not, but yeah. Very similar to,

[00:18:41] Fawn: Challah Challah . Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting about the braiding and the stamping, because these are such ceremonial breads, everything means something like these stamps were meant to designate who the bread was going to or what family it was.

And the more the speaking of the Gata bread, that the more elaborate the designs that the more significant the ceremony or the relationship that people had that were making the bread or the bread was made for. It's really interesting. And so are you going to decorate yours today?

[00:19:18] Joey: I was thinking of, I don't have one of those stamps, but I was thinking of using the fork, you know, at the end, when it's all put together and just making a design on it as best I can,

[00:19:30] Fawn: I have been making our own stamps, but they're in the form of rings but those are packed away because I've, I'm always like let's move and I pack everything so packed away. I can't use them, but I think we can just draw our own and yeah. By the way, by the way, so,Amai a, she's from Denmark, the archeologist, I'm talking about the one who found the crumbs, you know, they also found, so we're using you and I are using Einkorn flour.

Last time I mentioned, when you asked what kind of flour should we use? And I'm like, really all purpose flour will do really, or any kind of flour, but we use Einkorn. And guess what guys, when she found this crumb, they found Einkorn

[00:20:15] Matt: . Einkorn is an ancient grain. It is.

[00:20:17] Fawn: And know we know that, but like, wow, there it is like major ancient,

[00:20:22] Matt: except for can't you literally hear the snarky archeologist who thinks that it's newer than that going, oh, well it must not have been bread.

It must've been a bread topping on a key show or something.

[00:20:35] Fawn: I'm saying that, but listen to this. They found major sophisticated cooking and baking techniques and that they that's how they found the Einkorn mixed with the roots of club rush tubers it's a type of flowering plants. And then they also found wild mustard seeds scattered around the flavor. Of course. Yeah. But yeah, you say of course, by like,

[00:21:02] Matt: I'm smug like

that, ,

[00:21:03] Fawn: we're talking about stone age,

and we're talking about, I mean, we always talk about, oh my God, the trade route and the spice route. And that's when spice came into the world. Um, no,

[00:21:14] Matt: um, I'm also thinking about what the brewers probably thought about Einkorn and all these other things and how sophisticated beers were in that era.

[00:21:24] Joey: I think a lot about beer when we're talking, you know, the history of beer.

When we talk about stuff like this, it was really quiet. You know, how old beer is, what it was made with even the accidental fermentations and stuff like that.

[00:21:39] Fawn: Right. And Joey, you brew your own beer. Right? Amazing. So, okay. Breaking bread: to break bread means to have a meal with someone. I found this quote and someone said it comes from the Bible, but I don't know the language doesn't seem, cause I have this quote over here, but it doesn't seem like biblical language.

It seems like models, but here in quotes, it's hard to remain enemies when you've broken bread together. Unquote and yeah, of course we talked about that train ride. Where w the racist people were yelling at the kid, remember from our last show you're talking about. Yeah. And, and so I found myself being the only non-white person on this train filled with people that were hating on Africa and anyone non-white.

And so then I started to pass out cookies and everyone then was friendly, you know? Right. Okay, good. So this reminds me of that, but, uh, it's more than sharing food. It's about coming together despite the past. It's about bridging the gaps. It's about connecting the hearts, the stomachs and the stories, you know, and in Persian culture, when we talk about the heart, we talk about the stomach.

Like, a term for I'm homesick or my, my heart is feeling pain emotionally. We say my stomach is tight. So it's interesting how different cultures will have different areas of the body where in like the American culture, we go for the heart. Right. I think, well, a lot of cultures talk about the heart Corazon, you know,

To combine all of that, the heart, the stomach, bringing the stories together, becoming whole, like whole one through all that nourishes us, all that nourishment, that's what it means, the breaking bread. I think breaking bread for me is a way to break the resistance and the not knowing of our stories.

When we break bread, when we sit at a table together, it brings about conversation. And even if we're not talking, the sharing of a meal, the sharing of something that you're tasting, you're feeling the scent of; you're smelling. All those senses come back to us. The latent stories we're searching for, that's when it all comes back.

And especially since we have friends at the table and we're sitting around one another and experiencing these tastes together, I think that through our collective consciousness, we can make sense out of life. We can figure things out and we can understand better. You know, you guys know what I'm talking about

[00:24:31] Joey: 100%.

I do. And I think, you know, I don't really put this stuff together. Maybe that's maybe that's a little bit everyone these days. It's not until someone says something that it really clicks in my brain. I'm like, yeah. You know, Y that makes a lot of sense. And why doesn't it make a lot of sense to more people?

But I think, you know, it's something that I don't know if it's a generational thing or if it's obviously life gets very busy and people start renovating houses or start having kids. And, and it's easy to like make a quick meal and just eat and get on with the day. But something that I've started considering more lately, and especially with like a Fawn, you recommended Taste the Nation show.

Yes. And I think shows like that, do this kind of thing really well, where it's very interesting and you're like, you meet people from all over and, get introduced to their foods and what the food means to their culture, but it really allows you to see how to think about food and everything. And I like you can sit down and what the food means and really think about it and have this bread breaking opportunity, which is such a familial personal thing between people, but also between people and the food.

And I think that's very important and you don't like don't watch. Well watch whatever you want, but I don't like, I'm not a big fan of like the kitchen angry drama, reality, you know, I can't stand

[00:26:10] Fawn: that stuff. Always have war in the title. Yeah.

[00:26:14] Joey: Which is why I love, maybe I talked about this on the last episode, but it's why I love great British baking show because it's such a nice show.

And I really, really don't like competition shows. It's just me. I just don't like competition shows, but that show, it's just really nice to see nice people, but with something like Taste the Nation and other shows like that, where people are going around to other people and being introduced to the culture and the food makes it so much more personal, you know, and so much.

And, and just inspires me to just sit down and have a meal and enjoy the meal and think about the food and what it means and where it came from and have that interaction with the food, as well as the people that I'm breaking bread with or breaking lamb with or whatever it is, absolutely coffee. Like we could just, I could just go on and on about.

[00:27:11] Fawn: I love this topic and yeah. Have you noticed how there's so much noise and anger and they do use the word war a lot, the war of cupcake cupcake wars, or, you know, and it's really interesting because years ago when Martha Stewart was showing what was up, like when she was cooking, it was so relaxing to watch. There wasn't all this noise to gain attention of someone. It was just calm. One of our friends, a teacher, she taught kindergarten and first grade in Los Angeles in neighborhoods that were going through so much turmoil and violence. And these kids, guess what their favorite kind of thing was to watch on TV, Martha Stewart, a cooking show that was very calm.

Because it does talk about everything that we're talking about today, that connection it's that sense of peace. And it's the sense of nourishment just calm and peaceful. When you have food around it, shouldn't be about noise and hurry, hurry, hurry. And who's the best at this,

and the competition. When you have food around, it's a signal to you in so many ways that all is well, we have food here. It is safe enough for us to bake or cook something right now, because we're not on the run. We can just come to the very moments that exist right now and have everything immersed, all your senses immersed in this one particular thing.

It's so meditative. Young kids know that.

One of my favorite shows for some reason is Family Feud. Like I just, it's the only, we're totally obsessed, but I don't like competition.

Matt knows. And I didn't know what a Chewbacca was, but like when Matt and I first met. Um, our friend, our friend and Matt called me Chewbacca. And you, you, you actually called me a Wookie and then I got angry, even more angrier than I was, because I thought you guys were calling me a rookie. I didn't know what a Wookie was.

I'm like, how dare you. I'm not a rookie. I have experienced. You explained what a Wookie was the character that if they lose they'll, they'll take your arm off because I don't like competition games. I feel all the injustices in the world when I play even monopoly, I can't do it.

I can't, I can't to lose for me, I feel all the injustices, not just the ones that my culture has felt, but like everybody else's. And especially if I'm playing, forgive me for sounding so racist, but especially when I'm playing with white people, I can't, I want to destroy everything around me if I'm losing.

And then if I'm winning, it's even worse probably because, I'll stand up and like, you know, Beat my chest and go, "I WIN!"You hear that, "I won! I won!

[00:30:21] Matt: Good winner.

[00:30:22] Fawn: It's not pretty, so I don't like to play games, but have you noticed going back to family feud, Matt's like, Hey guys, let's look at the original Family Feud from the seventies.

And we looked at that, we're like, first of all, we were totally disgusted by the host

[00:30:39] Matt: Richard Dawson

[00:30:40] Fawn: and how he would practically be French kissing every single person,

[00:30:45] Matt: every single woman.

[00:30:46] Fawn: Yes, woman. And they were subjected to that forceful kiss. It was it's disgusting. Also another thing that I didn't like was the, the muted colors of the 1970s and it was boring.

It was like, I was not engaged. I'm like, Ugh, I don't like family feud now, but it's because the family feud now is much glitzier and more colorful. It's more respectful towards women, but it's, It's flashier and it's more engaging because there's more color and more sound. But having said that, I don't appreciate all that sound in all these cooking shows and all the competition that we feel in life.

Like, why is that necessary? Why are they perpetuating that kind of violence? You know? And then I was watching this other show where they go through the decades, they start from the 1940s and they take this one family. Have you seen this show? You guys, they take this one family and they transform their home depending on what the decade is and what exactly year it is.

So the 19 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, they go through every year and each time the family comes home, something in their home has been transformed

[00:32:02] Matt: or all of a sudden, maybe they have a dishwasher where they didn't have one before and they make them dress, period. Yeah.

[00:32:08] Fawn: Period. They have to do everything according to that exact year.

And everyone has to play along with that role. So the woman was always in the kitchen, the men were not allowed to come into the kitchen and help her. She had to make everything start eating and there were no appliances. And then the government told you what to eat. And then you also had rations.

And so when you go from year to year, you start noticing the mood of the culture and the mood of the society and how tough things were for people especially for women. You see the family dynamic change. As we got more appliances and we got things more easy to obtain things got lighter.

Like we got, like in the 1950s, things were a little bit lighter, but not for the woman and the 1960s, things changed and you could go out to eat actually in the late fifties you would go out to eat. And the Chinese restaurant was a huge role in that, because you talk about this on your show.

I think Joey, about how it's in other cooking shows that we, like, they talk about how Chinese food was seen as the cheap food. Right? Yeah. But it shouldn't be that way. It should be honored. And why does it have to be that way? You see how people's relationships change around food and how now we don't even have meals together even as a family.

Well, we didn't definitely before the pandemic, I feel like we were a very strange family because we do everything from scratch. You know, we always laugh because when we talk about the 1940s, I'm like, oh my God. I'm like from the 1940s, because a good portion of my life is in the kitchen. Cause I make everything from scratch, everything.

And so I'm always in here and it's hard, but you see how people get so disconnected because now they have so much at their fingertips. There's so much distraction. And even these families that are from modern times, they were like, yeah, I actually miss the connection I had with my daughters in the kitchen because we had bonding time.

So once again, it comes back to food and the ceremony of it all and how we gather and how fathers, their roles have changed. Fathers would not be changing diapers like our generation. I think maybe our dads maybe started to change some diapers. Right? When we had kids, Matt and I would fight over who got to change Elle's diaper or Allegra's diaper or who got to carry them.

And remember, we would fight about who would carry Elle in the Bjorn? The baby Bjorn. I want to carry it's my turn. And so a dad would never do that. So things are changing. And now, hello, look at us now it's Matt and Joey we're in the kitchen together. We're doing this together.

Things are finally getting mixed again in a good way where we can truly sit at the table and cook together and eat together and break bread together.

[00:35:26] Matt: So we actually going to start,

[00:35:28] Fawn: okay. This recipe for the Gata bread is by Andrew Janjigian. I'm going to read the whole thing

so we have no surprises.

For the dough, this is what we need. We need 10 ounces of all purpose flour. You and I Matt, are going to useEinkorn flour. 10 ounces is usually two cups plus two tablespoons, 285 grams.

Next is one and a quarter teaspoon of instant yeast. That would be five grams of instant yeast

one eighth teaspoon baking soda,

two teaspoons of salt,

five ounces, which is 10 tablespoons, 140 grams of unsalted softened butter,

two ounces, sugar. That's a quarter cup, which is 60 grams,

five ounces, about two thirds cup, 140 grams of plain Greek yogurt, whole or low fat. We're using vegan yogurt

and you need one large egg lightly beaten. That would be 55 grams. And so instead of the egg, because we're vegan, we're using three tablespoons of aquafaba, which is the liquid when you cook beans, we're using chickpeas,

[00:36:53] Joey: Fresh right from outside my door. Is it blue? So pretty?

[00:36:59] Fawn: Oh my God, it's so beautiful. So one large for each egg, you need three tablespoons of aquafaba.

Now we're going to have filling in this bread.

This is for the filling.

You need three ounces of walnuts. That's 85 grams, lightly toasted or coarsely chopped,

two and a half ounces about one half cup. Half cup, 70 grams, all purpose flour,

two ounces. Again, two ounces would be a quarter cup, 60 grams sugar,

a quarter teaspoon of salt,

two ounces, which is four tablespoons or 60 grams of unsalted melted butter,

two teaspoons vanilla extract. That would be 10 milliliters.

and then to finish and bake it, we need one large egg lightly beaten with a pinch of salt.

So what I do is I take the aquafaba one egg version and I put a little bit of saffron and tumeric to make that yellow color. I beat it and then I brush it with that. Okay. I'm going to read the directions and then we're going to do it our way. Okay.

Don't panic. Okay. It's going to be fun. So directions:

for the dough in a medium bowl, whisk together flour, yeast, baking soda and salt.

In a large bowl using a stiff rubber spatula, vigorously stir butter and sugar together to form a uniform paste, add flour mixture to butter mixture. Wipe out bowl that had the flour mixture. Lightly grease with cooking spray or butter and set aside. Using the spatula followed by hands mix flour and butter mixtures together until even cornmeal like mixture forms.

So about one to two minutes, then you add step two, as you add the yogurt and the egg using spatula followed by hands, stir until stiff, even though forms, about two minutes. Transfer dough to the prepared lightly greased, medium bowl and cover tightly.

You guys, what I do is I buy shower caps, you know, those shower caps that you could even get.

When you go to a hotel room, I save those. I, I wash them and then I cover the bowls with those shower caps. Okay. So let sit at room temperature for 30 minutes, then transfer to the refrigerator and chill for at least four hours and up to 16 hours. Okay. So we're going to do all this. And then, during the four hours, we're going to take a break, but come back. It'll be like one continuous stream episode.

Okay step three, for the filling you guys for the filling, I'm deviating a little bit because I'm adding dates, walnuts, cardamom, cinnamon, and a little butter.

So step three for the filling. Andrew says in a medium bowl, stir together and walnuts, flour, sugar, and salt, add butter and the vanilla extract and using a rubber spatula stir until the clumpy paste forms and no dry flour remains.

Cover and store at room temperature until we're ready to assemble.

Step four, according to Andrew to finish and bake, adjust oven rack to middle position preheat oven to 375 degrees, Fahrenheit in Celsius, that would be 190 Celsius. Transfer dough to clean lightly floured surface and dust top of dough lightly with flour using your hands gently press dough to an even six inch circle. Adding flour to both sides of dough as needed to prevent sticking while pinching closed any major cracks that form. Using a rolling pin roll into a 12 inch circle about quarter inch thick.

Step 5: place filling in center of dough and using clean hands and rubber spatula, spread into an even five inch round desk. Leaving three and a quarter inch border of dough on all sides. Starting at one edge using your hands, fold and pleat dough over filling toward center.. Working your way around like a disk. Pinch and press pleats together to fully enclose filling. Press top of dough, gently to form an even six inch round.

Invert, so seam side is facing down and using a rolling pin gently roll into an even nine inch round. Transfer to a rimmed baking sheet lined with parchment paper or a silicone baking mat.

Step six, we're almost done. Pinch dough around the edge of the Gata between the index finger of one hand and thumb and index finger of the other hand to form decorative points spaced about one inch apart. Brush top and sides evenly with egg wash. Using a fork drag flat, underside, a fork across top to form groove lines in a crisscross pattern spaced about one inch apart.

So I guess this is when he's decorating it, and this is when we would use stamps or something, uh, using a toothpick poke eight to 10 evenly spaced holes in top of dough stopping when you reach the failing.

Bake until evenly golden brown, 28 to 35 minutes, rotating baking sheet after 20 minutes.

Step seven, last step: transfer, baking sheet to wire rack, and cool for at least 20 minutes.

And then you slice it into wedges and you serve and you enjoy.

Let's start,

[00:43:20] Matt: um, if I may. Yeah. And you may very well want to edit me first of all, definitely post the, uh, are you going to be posting the recipe on the blog as well as perhaps

[00:43:32] Joey: pictures? So I was going to say that I'm going to be using the unaltered, recipe from Andrew Janjigian on Serious Eats.

And there are pictures. Yes. Okay. The recipe, which is very helpful.

[00:43:48] Fawn: I will leave links to not only Joey, but to Andrew. As far as following the vegan version that we're doing.

, it's all in the transcripts.

Let's get started.

We need

[00:44:00] Joey: sound appropriately. I have the recipe pulled up on my phone and my phone is being supported upright by a pomegranate.

So it's all very,

[00:44:13] Fawn: yes, it is appropriate. The pomegranate runs deep in our culture, Joey.

[00:44:20] Joey: Yes. Well, it's on the cover of many, a cookbook from that region of the world

[00:44:25] Matt: runs strong in Greece too.

[00:44:29] Fawn: There are pomegranates in architecture everywhere. Well, there's,

[00:44:32] Joey: there's a hold

[00:44:35] Matt: on. It. There's a famous Greek myth about it and it involves why we have winter. And we have winter because when the daughter of some such goddess was, taken down to H E double hockey sticks, she ate three pomegranate seeds, dunk dunk, and that's why the ancient Greeks believed we had winter, but it was strictly speaking, pomegranate seeds.

God helped me. I love folklore.

[00:45:03] Joey: I am putting on my,

[00:45:05] Matt: uh, it's lovely, by the

[00:45:06] Joey: way, my apron that I got at the Armenian festival that we talked about on the last episode now he's covered in pomegranate decoration.

[00:45:17] Fawn: Thanks for reminding me.

[00:45:19] Matt: Yeah. Um, thanks for

[00:45:21] Fawn: reminding me.

[00:45:22] Matt: We have a hard time with, uh, like very like intricate or pretty, aprons here because we tend to wear through them.

And when I say we, of course, I mean my wife on, cause you know, I wear aprons, but yeah, I'm not the one wearing them out.

[00:45:40] Fawn: Much like, um, cookbooks. I have an apron fetish. Like I can't get enough aprons. I love them. And I've packed most of them away. But

[00:45:48] Matt: one specifically that was like commercial it's denim it's yeah.

Very heavy duty.

[00:45:54] Joey: Yeah, because literally my first, this is my first non let's see, like non what's, the right word. I'm

[00:46:03] Matt: not sure what you're calling functional.

[00:46:06] Joey: I had an apron, like I used to do welding and stuff like that. So not that kind of, it, this is my first cooking apron. Gotcha.

[00:46:16] Fawn: Nice. Joey. I have, some aprons that I will wear out in public because they are like a, kind of like a Japanese design where it's like a dress that goes all the way around and has deep, deep pockets.

I love it. It's a dress. Oh, how are we going to do this? Oh my gosh.

[00:46:33] Joey: Flour baking, soda and salt flour.

[00:46:38] Fawn: Matt, can you take out the use from the fridge it's in the drawer? Yes. Al do you know where the, the yeast is?

[00:46:48] Matt: You guys actually want to see Joey or start getting crazy

[00:46:52] Fawn: and say, hi, Joey, Joey, this is all Allegra Allegra here.

[00:46:59] Joey: How are you doing good. Thanks. That's good. Making some bread with your mom and dad and you too also, I guess we're all in it together. Yeah.

[00:47:17] Fawn: Yeah. I guess we are. , anyway, I'm going to give you back to mom.

You good? No, it's in a bigger bag. Okay. Sorry.

They can't find anything in the kitchen, Joey. I have to go get it. Sure.

[00:47:33] Joey: I'll uh, keep the audience entertained. I'm whisking. We're on step one. I guess I'm halfway through step one.

[00:47:43] Fawn: Okay.

[00:47:49] Joey: You know what? We'll, everyone's away for those listening.

Go subscribe to Krypton to Alderaan and listen to a few episodes and let me know what you think unless you don't like it. And then I guess don't let me know or whatever you want to do.

[00:48:04] Fawn: Sorry. We're trying to look. We're trying to look for some yeast, sorry.

[00:48:09] Joey: Sure.

[00:48:10] Matt: Minor technical issue. Okay. Okay. So where are

[00:48:16] Joey: we at? And I completed half of step one. Nice. I suppose I can move on to the second half of the step. Now I'll wait for you all,

[00:48:31] Matt: as things are falling and noises being had. Yes.

[00:48:37] Fawn: Okay, Joey, um, I have the dry in the bowl. Where are you at?

[00:48:43] Joey: I have mixed the butter and sugar together to form a uniform paste. And I have whisked together, the flour, yeast, baking soda and salt.

Although I haven't added the flour to the butter yet

[00:48:56] Fawn: are way ahead of me. So I just, I have not done the butter, but I have put the flour together with the yeast.

Okay, so a little, I have some more, I'm not sure this is not working the way I imagined because our table is so small and there's all this audio equipment and stuff I'm afraid of spilling everywhere. So let's see, how should I do this? Should I have the girls do it Allegra? Can you make the butter mixture?

Joey, how did you do this so fast? I'm going to go do the butter.

[00:49:39] Joey: Let me know when you want me to add the flour and the butter together. We'll do that at a

[00:49:45] Fawn: we'll do it together together. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Carry on guys.

[00:49:50] Matt: Um, do you want me to get you a longer microphone? Cord bay? Nope. All right. Fair enough. Um,

[00:49:57] Joey: I do, well, go ahead. I was just going to say Matt and anyone else out there listening this coming week , I have an episode, a Krypton to Alderaan episode coming out this week, a one-on-one episode where I talk to someone really about how much star wars means to them and why they take star wars

so seriously, you know, it's one of the people in my life who, who does, you know, say star wars is a religious for them, you know, it's and to a lot of us star wars means so much to so many. I mean, I can talk about it. I joke around about it, but it's really, uh, an incredible thing that has permeated pop culture for so long.

And people growing up with it, people identifying with it in different ways, or people unable to identify it, identify with it, or it does not identify with them. So it's, it's a truly complex system and it means so many different things to so many people. So Matt specifically, I'd be interested for you to listen to this next episode and then let me know what you think.

I also think, you know, it's part of what I'm trying to do with my show, which is like introduce other people's perspectives. And so I don't, it it's impossible for me to have had the relationship with star wars that this person has had, but listening to their perspective and understanding it, I think is huge and something that the rest of the fandom would be keen to start

[00:51:34] Matt: doing.

Right. And, and I totally get it. I think it probably evolves a lot from when were you first exposed to it and then how much were you exposed to it?

[00:51:45] Joey: I have this horrible, uh, Habit of bringing everything to star wars or bringing Star Wars to everything, but to bring it back to the topic that we're discussing here as part of your podcast and Fawn's podcast, Star Wars for me, the storytelling has become so much about found family.

And that's something that I a couple of years ago didn't connect with. And again, hearing all of these different perspectives has really opened my eyes to it makes me see all the stories in a new way. And I think it's, I've been trying to identify why I connect with those stories so well, whether it's found family in Star Wars or any other, content I consume.

And part of it, I think is like what I talked about on the last episode we all recorded with trying to figure out my family history, trying to figure out my family and trying to identify with being Armenian, you know, everything we discussed on the last episode. And I really think that that's a big part of why I'm connecting with all of these found family stories.

[00:52:53] Matt: So does this mean that you secretly root for you secretly we're rooting for, uh, Boba to or Django even to destroy the rebel Alliance and the, all the rest of it. Cause there's a, there's a, a family broken

[00:53:07] Joey: right there. Yeah. And, and it's such a heartbreaking, it's like another thing that people talk about so much these days is like keep politics out of Star Wars, which is insane because Star Wars was founded on politics.

Absolutely. Just don't don't trust

[00:53:26] Matt: big gov, baby.

[00:53:27] Fawn: How does that explain

[00:53:29] Matt: that to me, Lucas grew up in this, um, you know, kind of Vietnamish era and he didn't trust big government and you see that happening in the second trilogy where he was given, or he took complete control over everything, but he kept hinting at it.

You know, the last remnants of the old Republic had been swept away is in the first star wars movie. And it just kind of, you can, you can zoom in on it if you want and you can ignore it if you want, but it's right there. Yeah.

[00:54:01] Joey: Yeah. And, and calling

[00:54:02] Matt: them

[00:54:05] Joey: the politics of war, you know, storm troopers for crying out loud, but, but you know, all the way up to nuance. And I think you can, uh, you can take a lot of world war two Vietnam. You can make a lot of world war II, Vietnam connections to the original trilogy, and you can make a lot of. Uh, recent war, you know, in our world, recent war connections to the sequel trilogy, of course.

And I think, you know, there's so much of that in every star wars with, and now with Boba Fett and the Jedi, at that point in time where the protectors of the galaxy, but, you know, murdered his father in front of him, right. The clone, you know, he's a clone and they treated the clones, like nothing, they treated the clones, like

[00:54:55] Matt: disposable

[00:54:55] Joey: expendable soldiers.

And, you know, there's all that stuff. But I think to go back that that's just a huge connection I make now, again, I, I spoke in our, like, after whatever bonus conversation we had about Leah seeing Alderaan blown up and the genocide committed and then not talking about it. And that being akin to the trauma of genocide, right.

That generation that goes through genocide and witnesses genocide does not talk about it. Right. For the most part, because it was such a, obviously such a traumatic experience.

[00:55:31] Matt: It hit me when I was so young, it was just like, I just didn't kind of think about it. And you know, when they say it was like a million voices silenced at once, it's like, no, it wasn't.

It was billions of voices. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's way more but pure escapist entertainment. So let's just ignore that.

[00:55:52] Joey: Oh yeah. I think that that's a big part. Like it's, it's what you can hear me say, Hey, I host a podcast called Krypton to Alderaan, we talk all about nerdy, pop culture stuff, but it's mostly star wars and on its face it's yeah.

Star wars. It's this pop culture, now blockbuster type thing. If you listen to my podcasts or other pod, better podcasts than mine talking about this much better than I can. There's just so much more to it. And it's meant so much to so many people. And it's so much more than I, if, and it's something there truly is just every level of something for everyone, if you want it to be escapism.

Yeah. Great. That's great. If you want to know deeper meanings about it and what it means to people, or if you want to share the deeper things that it means to you, then that's also great. And let's go for it. If anyone out there wants to talk about star wars in a deep way, reach out and let's have a conversation.

I love hearing what Star Wars means to other people. Absolutely. And by the way,

[00:57:03] Matt: Not to do this, but to do this, a Stormtrooper Stormtrooper was the name Adolf Hitler gave his troops. They were stormtroopers or, yeah. And on and on and on. And so for Lucas to pick that name, it was very, we want to make sure everybody understood, like, like my father would always say in the first five minutes of star wars, you know who the bad guys are.

It's pretty simple. You got this guy in all black, who's choking, choking people, they're going after a ship and they're all dressed in armor that you can't tell what they really look like. And on and on and on. It's like, you know who the bad guys are. Right. It's simple. He didn't have to paint you a huge picture about it, or rather he did paint you a huge picture, but it was really fast.

And you, you got it right away. Yeah. It's like,

[00:57:48] Joey: no, actually we haven't, uh, hopefully we haven't lost anybody. I promise all of this conversation is related to the other stuff we're talking about here. You know, bigger world, bigger picture stuff, genocide.

[00:58:05] Fawn: I mean, as a non star wars person, as I'm like going crazy in the kitchen right now, I totally get it.

If I get it, I think,

[00:58:15] Matt: , let's circle back to the baking of bread, the breaking of bread. And let's talk about how

[00:58:21] Fawn: can you, can you pause, do not lose your concentrate. Can you hold it, hold it. Can you hold it? You guys, I took a fork and I, I did the butter sugar mixture, and then I added rosewater

[00:58:35] Matt: to it, of course, because we had rosewater or rather Fawn adds rose.

[00:58:39] Fawn: And then I took the flour mixture that we had set aside and I sprinkled some cardamom and a little cinnamon. And again, I don't measure Matt measures like a crazy scientist

[00:58:51] Joey: back to rosewater cardamom and some

[00:58:53] Matt: cinnamon, well, cardamom finds its way in everything, by the way, rosewater, what we're talking about is food grade.

And we're talking about specifically for us.

[00:59:01] Fawn: It's it's, um, C O R T a S rosewater, and that's the good stuff and it is the best. Um, it is amazing. I put in tea, I put it in all the pastries I make. I'm put in rice. I, splash it on my forehead when I need extra and

[00:59:20] Matt: it smells nice. It tastes a little sweet, it tastes sweet and it smells really nice because it smells kind of,

[00:59:28] Fawn: the scent is absolutely beautiful.

I just put like a couple of splashes of rosewater into the butter mixture. So now it's a paste of butter sugar and rosewater. And now what we're going to do is take this with a spatula and put it into the flour mixture that we have, incorporating it until you have a full dough.

[00:59:53] Joey: I am adding the flour to the butter

[00:59:55] Fawn: Have your yogurt ready? So we have five ounces of yogurt and the one large egg.

When we form the dough, we want a clean bowl that is greased. Oh yes. Okay. Um, Joey, how did you do everything so fast? You're way ahead of me.

[01:00:14] Matt: Probably softened

[01:00:17] Joey: I had, before we got on the call, I had measured everything out and have a line of bowls here.

[01:00:25] Fawn: I should have done that. I did not

[01:00:26] Joey: all

set up with everything in it. Also, speaking of measuring and Fawn, not measuring and Matt measuring. I have these awesome measuring spoons that are for smidgen, you know?

Oh, I love that.

[01:00:45] Fawn: It says tad. Well, that's

[01:00:48] Joey: Tad. Let's say tad dash pinch and smidgen.

[01:00:53] Fawn: I love it. Oh my God. They're adorable.

[01:00:56] Matt: And I've, I've actually, I've seen similar things for sure. And that's just for, for us pathological folk out there. I wanted to launch into smell, smell for those of you who don't know.

Smell is so connected for memory, especially with us fellows, we remember smells and we may not know exactly where we remember the smells from, but we connect. We oftentimes will connect, smells to emotions. It's a powerful thing. For me, it was like one of the things that attracted me, to my wife was the way she smelled.

There you go. There you go. And I used to, I used to, she claims, I used to smell the top of her head when we were in Aikido,

[01:01:41] Fawn: I would hear him sniffing my head.

[01:01:45] Joey: Let's from watching all that family feud.

[01:01:47] Fawn: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was, it was respectful, breathing. He was, I,

[01:01:54] Matt: you, I got nothing to say folks.

[01:01:58] Fawn: I had no idea that I loved you yet, but, but I would make sure that I had a certain Aveda product in my hair before coming into Aikido

[01:02:09] Matt: but she didn't know she liked me folks know, but anyways, so smell is so powerful. So, Joey, how does your mixture smell so


[01:02:18] Joey: It smells great. It smells like I'm getting a whiff of cinnamon at the moment.

[01:02:23] Matt: Nice. I have a belief that when I try certain foods that I'll remember, and I don't know if it's me remembering, my life or it's me trying to remember something that I desperately want to or whatever it is, but there, there have been certain foods and certain places that evoke memories that I, I'm not conscious of because

[01:02:45] Fawn: of the smell.

Matt, did you finish what you were saying before, before we started talking about the dough? I said, don't. I said,

[01:02:53] Matt: yeah, that was, that was my thought. So, so far, what do you smell in your, in

[01:02:57] Fawn: your, I smell rosewater, cardamom, cinnamon and flower. And when I first met you, I could smell our children.

Your scalp reminded me of baby formula. I smell like a baby, but like, those are, see the, those are the innate memories I'm talking about. Like, I could sniff our children from you. Um, and then when Joey and I first had our like heart-to-heart conversation and we were talking about his grandfather, I was like, Joey, can you tell me what you smell when you think of your great-grandfather?

And he started to get emotional. And then we, we kind of went off to another topic, but going back to that, Joey, when you think of growing up and when you think of your history, can you try to conjure up scents?

[01:03:51] Joey: Yes. In short, quick aside, have you added the yogurt and

[01:03:57] Fawn: I'm still, mixing the butter mixture and the flour together. Yeah. Someone needs to read the directions. Well,

[01:04:05] Joey: and my childhood, I think it's something I've been thinking about since you first asked me and with my grandfather, who was the Armenian that I grew up with, uh, to reiterate, you know, we didn't talk about it and we didn't have Armenian food. So there was never the smell of that stuff. Cooking. We always had stuffed grape leaves always. So there was always that with some lemon juice and I can taste that, and I know what that smells like. Other than that, there was nothing, but the Italian side of stuff is what I can smell.

And I grew up with these people, they were a huge part of my upbringing. And if I think about it, I can smell the smells of that Italian matriarch kitchen. Right. And yeah, it's just an incredible emotional response. And it's great because I loved those people and I loved the food and I love good Italian food and I can smell the smells and the smells we're just in the house.

Right. That stuff becomes part of the house. Right. And, but, so it's a great memory. It's also a little sad because I don't have that with the Armenian side of things. I'm making that now, I guess like when I'm making any of the recipes from these Armenian cookbooks and using these spices. I'm making those connections now.

[01:05:34] Matt: In a romanticized world, I want to say that, at some point you'll go encounter, you'll make you'll and it'll bring strange memories or to bring strange thoughts into your head.

[01:05:50] Joey: You know, if we ever get out of COVID

[01:05:56] Matt: yes indeed,

[01:05:58] Joey: maybe a group of us should go down to Denver.

If y'all are into that. Because there is apparently an Armenian bakery down in Denver, or I could go and then bring stuff up to Boulder. But, uh, Laurel, I went there for me when she was down in Denver. Once I have not been there, but I'd love to go in and smell the smells and talk to people and stuff.

[01:06:19] Matt: Yeah. I could, I could totally see.

[01:06:22] Fawn: You know, one of our listeners was telling me that she's from Texas. When she heard us talking about the scents and the spices, she's like, I need to get more.

So she was on her way. She told me she emailed me,

[01:06:35] Joey: A variety of sumac also grows wild in my hometown, in New York. wow. I'm definitely going to go and harvest some this summer.

[01:06:45] Matt: And this is definitely not poison Sumach, which is apparently it's strange non don't even think about eating kind of a thing.


[01:06:54] Joey: I grew up thinking it was poison sumac and I think that's a common thought in that town or in that area. It turns out that it's not, and it's delicious and it's you, my friends own a winery in the town and they make this soda with it. It's just really good.


[01:07:10] Matt: wow. I could, I could totally see that. Yeah. sumac on your rice is definitely one of those staples, I think in our,

[01:07:19] Fawn: um, well, I'm just going to say meat. We don't eat me, but like you sprinkle it over a kebab, you know, like we make vegan versions, but like over meat, chicken, beef, you sprinkle

[01:07:34] Joey: eggs the other morning.

It's just good on everything.

[01:07:38] Fawn: Yes. But don't see, like, I don't like cooking it like all, oh, you know, only raw when the food is done, you sprinkle it on top. You guys, I missed everything. Did I, am I doing this right?

[01:07:51] Joey: So did you add the yogurt and the eggs?

[01:07:53] Fawn: Yeah, I took, I took the quote unquote egg mixture and put it into, the yogurt mixed it up and then I put it into the dough mixture.

[01:08:04] Joey: All right. I'm going to do that

[01:08:05] Fawn: now. It seems really wet.

[01:08:08] Joey: Um,

[01:08:09] Matt: we haven't, you haven't done the flower yet, right? It's in the flour.

[01:08:12] Fawn: This is sweet. I don't know if I did it wrong guys.

[01:08:16] Joey: Let me see. His picture looks like. a dough like not super wet, but let me see what happens when I, um, I meant to bring this up.

The whole reason I bought sumac in the first place was to make muhammara

[01:08:32] Fawn: explain what that is. Joey,

[01:08:33] Joey: do you know what it is, Fawn? It's a Syrian roasted red pepper spread like a hummus, but made no chickpeas it's made with roasted red pepper. Yeah. So it's roasted red pepper, sumac, Sumach, a bread crumbs, various spices.

It is in incredible. The first time I had it, I just like ha it was, it was an experience like I'm sure that there were stars in my eyes. It was the greatest thing I ever tasted. I went to the place. There was, I worked in Albany, New York and there was this little bodega deli kind of thing with, I believe they were an Armenian and older Armenian couple.

And she, the wife made, makes this muhammara. They make incredible food there. And I loved it so much that I went back to tell her that it was the greatest thing that's ever passed my lips. So listeners look up a recipe. Don't roast the peppers I would, or do whatever. I tried both. I roasted my own peppers and then I made it with jarred roasted red peppers and the jarred stuff came out better, but it's delicious.

It's incredible.

[01:09:52] Fawn: Okay guys. Oh, first of all, I didn't answer your question. And Joey, I would love to take a trip to Denver with you. Oops. That sounds lovely. You know,

[01:10:04] Joey: don't want to go to Denver. Sorry,

[01:10:06] Fawn: neither. Oh, we don't. We don't. Okay. So Joey with us, like we grew up in the city. I grew up in the city and then we moved when we got married, we moved to a small town, like far away.

And then we moved closer to the city again, lived on an island across from Seattle. And every time we have to go back to Seattle, or if I had, I had photo shoots in Seattle, it was like, it was a whole other animal. Like I'm like, how did I ever survive in a city it's so fast and people are weird. And they, even their way their heads turn or everything is like super fast forward. and when you would get off the ferry, like sheep or water, people would surround your car. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to hit them. Why are they so close to me? Like, it's bizarre. I felt like a city person. And then when we moved to out in the country, I'm like, oh my God, I'm not a country person.

I thought I would be. And then when we moved closer to the city, I'm like, I'm not a city person. I don't even know what we are. So like going to Denver terrifies me.

[01:11:14] Joey: Yeah. Yeah. We

[01:11:15] Matt: have our, like we had, I suppose, now that we've been sequester for so long, we've had our spots that we would go to in Denver, but that was

[01:11:24] Fawn: it.

But getting

[01:11:26] Joey: there was like, Ooh, getting there. So you just kind of close your

[01:11:29] Matt: eyes and you go, and then,

[01:11:30] Fawn: I mean, on the freeway,

[01:11:32] Matt: I would close my eyes while driving on the freeway. No problem. Just okay. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:11:38] Fawn: He's your dough sticky. It, mine is really sticky.

Okay. Okay. Um, all right. So what we're going to do now is now that we've added the egg and everything, it says add yogurt and stir,

stir until stiff, and then you transfer the dough to a lightly greased bowl. And then we're going to let that sit at room temperature for 30 minutes. How are we going to work this out? Should we have two episodes because you guys have good conversation while we're waiting or should we cut it off and then come back.

What do you guys want to do?

[01:12:13] Joey: Should we make the, should we put this aside and make the filling? And then, yeah, that's a great idea.

[01:12:20] Matt: That's very smart.

[01:12:20] Fawn: Okay. So you guys, can you talk while I take the headset off my head and I'm going to find a way to transfer all this stuff.

So what we're going to do is you're going to put it in a bowl for 30 minutes. And then after that, you're going to take this dough mixture and chill it for four hours or up to 16 hours. So let's, let's put this dough away, do that. And then we'll come back and do the filling.

So you guys carry on while I take, I'm just going to clean these bowls and put the dough away. Okay? Okay. All right.

[01:12:55] Joey:

I'm going to step away and take care of these quick.

[01:13:03] Matt: We're going to be working on the filling and we're going to be toasting some walnuts or rather of course, I'm just sitting here. I'm just watching everything get orchestrated around me. This is truly awesome. It's truly awesome. And yes, it is generally new. Although for the folks at home, I do contribute by, , cleaning, doing dishes.

[01:13:22] Joey: I was I'm just, was going to get ready to toast some walnuts.

[01:13:26] Matt: Yes. And our youngest is theoretically doing the same. Yes, she is so perfect. I don't know if you can hear the mini prep. Fawn is grinding up some dates and about 87 different spices.

No doubt.

[01:13:45] Joey: I'm going to cut up some dates. I'm going to add dates as well.

Good to hear that. Could you hear all that wrestling?

[01:13:59] Matt: I can hear it. I hear wrestling. It wasn't the raw violence I think we have here with the mini prep, but yes.

[01:14:07] Fawn: I'm going to explain what I'm doing. And second

[01:14:09] Matt: she'll explain it. No doubt.

[01:14:13] Joey: Maybe I should use a machine for this

[01:14:16] Fawn: just a little bit. You smell that.

[01:14:21] Joey: Oh,

[01:14:22] Matt: smelling those walnuts

[01:14:26] Fawn: oil from the walnuts came out. So we like up,

[01:14:32] Matt: The smell of the walnuts has come out and so we've kind of woken them up and that's what kind of ethic what toasting does. And also, you know, it adds certainly that crunchiness to it. And, and honestly, when you think about like historically breads, I think once you start moving into G beyond the quote unquote simple loaf of bread and you start working on adding things to it.

Certainly first is going to be your spices, maybe your mustard, your Sesame seeds, your Rosemary, your et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But then once you move past, I think that aspect of things and move into more fillings, then you definitely start looking at the nut family.

[01:15:12] Fawn: Guys, I'm back and I'm covered with all kinds of spices Guys .

[01:15:16] Joey: What spices did you use, Fawn? I'm going to try to mimic. Okay.

[01:15:19] Fawn: I toasted the walnuts and then, I took like a cup of dates, maybe a cup and a half of dates pitted.

I had washed them. I just, because I was feeling rushed, I put them in the mini prep. So if you heard me zipping zips, that was, the dates. I could not make a paste with the dates, but just break them up a little bit. I love majool. Dates. They're amazing. I can, I can speak a whole day on the benefits, the health benefits of the date on another show.

I added in the butter and coconut sugar, and I use just a little bit less than what Andrew recommended, because of all the dates that I'm putting in there, it should be really sweet. I shouldn't have had any sugar actually in there, but I panicked and I just put stuff in. As far as spices, I use my hands, by the way, I'm assuming maybe, um, two tablespoons, two and a half tablespoons of cardamom.

Same with cinnamon . And then I poured more of the rosewater in. Sometimes along with these spices, I'll also put in nutmeg and I may do that right now. Actually. I'm going to,

[01:16:37] Joey: there it is.

[01:16:38] Matt: Oh, it's already ground. You don't have to

[01:16:40] Fawn: grate it. Right. Save a few seconds of time. So they're just, just like a little pinch of nutmeg is really powerful and I smell that. Yep. Thank you. So now I'm going to mix it into a paste, the butter, the fun part.

I'm using a fork and I'm mixing everything all together and it smells delicious. Smell that. All

[01:17:01] Joey: right.

[01:17:02] Matt: Ooh, that is a nice smell. Sweet.

[01:17:06] Fawn: You know, the word smell freaks me out scent the scent is lovely.

[01:17:10] Joey: Okay. So I'm a little behind you. I've got the walnuts and the spices, and then now I'm adding the sugar and the flour and the salt

seems like a lot of sugar.

[01:17:23] Fawn: I know, like, um, what's supposed to be sweet. Yeah. But like, if we're using dates like I did, you really don't need the sugar. I don't know why I did that. Doesn't

[01:17:32] Matt: sugar and yeast interact and like give off lots of air, air bubbles.

[01:17:41] Fawn: It helps the yeast grow, but this is the filling that this is not mixing with the dough. The dough is sitting there rising as we speak. And this, this mixture for me. Joey is starting to look, , perfect. I could just spread this on toast or something. It's beautiful. You can probably taste it. One of the wonderful things about being, vegan is we don't have to worry about salmonella so we can always taste cookie batter and cake batter corn

[01:18:12] Matt: growing up

[01:18:13] Joey: anyways.

Yeah. I've been doing that the whole time. Anyway. That's pretty safe. Especially with like our home eggs. I think a lot of it came like came from the shell. You know, the sh the eggshells were dirty. Yeah.

I haven't melted the butter in the pan that I toasted the walnuts in every last good place, Joey. Oh,

[01:18:40] Matt: oh,

she tried it.

[01:18:42] Fawn: I'm telling you. I swear. I just taste the filling. It took me back to childhood.

[01:18:50] Joey: So I was going to ask Fawn. Did you, you know, growing up, you asked me about smells and, and that connection.

I'm very curious because I'm trying to connect to all of this stuff. Now, I want to ask you the same question, like baking bread, learning how to cook this stuff, learning these spices, growing up with all of it. Teach me about it. What

[01:19:13] Fawn: do you mean? Oops,

[01:19:15] Joey: teach me your feelings. Like, tell me about what the smells do for you.

And, and growing up with that, like I grew up smelling the Italian food. I want to know a similar story

[01:19:25] Fawn: from you. Okay. For me, rosewater is key, which is probably why I put rosewater and everything. It reminds me of my grandmother and I was always an outcast in my family and an outcast in life and in my profession as well, it kind of carry it on, but the rose water and the connection to my grandmother, even though like her attention was taken by all the other relatives and cousins and everything.

I had the silent communication with her, and I remember in Iran she would go to temple. And when she came back, she would bring back in her handkerchief, like when you go to church and you get bread or the wafers, I don't know, whatever you would get in church, she would come back from temple with these rice.

Uh, okay. So it was a rice covered in. Sugar and rosewater. So it's a grain of rice and you would like, and then, because it's covered, it's like a little candy, but that's what it was, would be given out at the temple. And she always had the scent of rose water on her and she was a very religious woman. She was always at temple.

No one else in the family really was. She was the only one there that, I mean, from my tiny, tiny little perspective, that's what I remember. And that's what I remember is that, , the scent of saffron saffron, again, like rosewater in everything we make, , saffron with, we put poured into a rice and to tea, everything, and then mixing rosewater with saffron.

And maybe some honey is what I remember because baklava baklava, like that's, that's the syrup that you would pour on was saffron water rosewater, honey. That mixture would be glazed and drenched. The pastry would be soaking all that. And of course, cardamom was mixed in there. I forgot to mention that.

So cardamom, rosewater, saffron. Honey. And in our case now it's maple syrup, that reminds me of celebration because Persians celebrate everything and they have get togethers every week. And I'm sure like, this is another reason why I love so many other cultures, like anything similar. I'm like, oh my family.

So a lot of the Latin cultures that have dinners together, right. That's what it reminds me of. And so all those scents coming together, the scent of rice also when you're cooking rice and I'm not talking about uncle Ben, I'm talking about taking the rice and cooking it the old fashioned way, which is what we do.

We rinse the rice and then we par boil the rice and then we cook, we bake it or we cook it over the stove. And so that scent of rice is so calming and nourishing and peaceful for me. I could smell it on people's skin. Like I remember trying to smell my mom's, upper arm, as a little tiny toddler.

And I remember her freaking out, like, what are you doing? Get away, you know, typical. But I was trying, I was trying to experience her as a person for me smelling and hearing and touching. Gives me information that may not be expressed in words, but I can understand through those senses. And so ever since I became a mom and even a little bit before that, when Matt and I got married, I took those scents and I reclaimed them because like I said, I was always ostracized from my family.

You know, my family wasn't the best. So all those things I re reclaimed and ever since Elle and Allegra came into the world, I have taken those ingredients and together the three of us, I mean, Matt too, but Matt gets shooed away from the kitchen because we're like three whirling dervishes in the kitchen. So he's like, he's so tall, like six, four, he's like a

[01:23:47] Matt: giant

I'm always stripping over somebody.


[01:23:49] Fawn: then, you know, we don't want to get into any fights. So like, he'll like kind of step aside and maybe do some dishes, but

[01:23:56] Matt: and eat

[01:23:57] Fawn: and, and, and yes, taste test, which is a big part of our ceremony. Like when we do a cake, when we bake a cake or we bake anything, we always taste it's part of the ceremony before it goes into the oven.

, so if that answers your question, we, I I've reclaimed it with Elle and Allegra; taking all these things that I remember from childhood. And starting a whole new circle, a whole new ceremony. And oddly enough, I say whole new ceremony, but it's really the more I read and the more I study, I'm like, oh my God, I've done it the old way without being taught because it's, it's a natural muscle response in my hands and my fingers, the amount of cardamom I'll, I'll take from a jar and where I choose to put these spices in, you know, I'm purely operating from a sense of instinct.

And then when I read, I'm like, oh my God, that's how they did it. You know, does that answer your

[01:25:01] Joey: question? It does. Yeah, no, I think it's really good insight into it all. You know what we're trying to do here? Because you and I and Matt have such different histories, you know, like you grow up in the Persian culture, you know, with, or with at least with the, in the Persian culture and with the food.

And I'm trying to find that now,

[01:25:25] Fawn: totally. And what I love is you are now our family, the fact that we're baking this beautiful Armenian ceremony bread. The fact that we're having these conversations, Joey, the fact that I know that you are sensitive to my culture and I am deeply sensitive and in love with your culture, we are forever family.

It's a reunion. Really?

[01:25:50] Joey: Yeah. Yes. And I love that. And I think, you know, going back to something we were discussing earlier, like the whole event of breaking bread; making bread, breaking bread, having meals together, what that's become, but what it has the potential to be; this again, very personal connected thing. We can go out to restaurants with people and we sit around and eat. And there's not really a consciousness about it a lot of the times. But if you can just perceive it as maybe this more personal connected thing, even whether you're sitting in your kitchen dining room, or if you're in an area where you can be out at a restaurant and be safe in times of a global pandemic, having that opportunity to sit with people and eat and experience all of it, the food that food was created by somebody who has this certain connection with it, the people that you're eating it with and their connection with it, your connection with the people that you're eating it with, all of it. It's something so important to be conscious of. Sometimes like don't put the burden, don't make the burden of it being conscious of it all the time.

And like having it, having to think about it, like, don't make it a burden obviously, but there's just something so... I just really love food. This is all coming from a place of that. But you know, the more I delve into my Armenian roots, I'm reading these books, I'm getting more connected with the culture and just understanding that these things mean things to people.

You know what I mean, perspectives of other people, perspectives, memories of the scent, all, all of it coming together, to just like being made into a


[01:27:34] Fawn: Absolutely. And there was such wisdom in that there's so much profound wisdom in ways that we can't even imagine that comes alive in doing that. And you know, you use the word burden.

I know Matt, you wanted to say something, I'm sorry, but I'm going to jump in there. you used the word burden.

As soon as Matt and I got together, that's when the love of preparing meals to nourish in many ways came to be for me.

I would look at people, women, especially who considered cooking, a thing that they turned their noses up at. And I started to look at the messages in our society where like commercials came on the saying that, , I refuse to wash dishes. Um, I just use paper plates as like a thing to be proud of.

I'm like, oh my God. So look at all that waste that you were going to put in the landfill. It's so disrespectful, but what's wrong with doing dishes what's wrong with taking care of your home. It's a ceremonial beautiful thing to do. And then I was, I would hear women who would find out how much I cook and they would look down at me.

Like, because I'm going back in time and going against women's lib or something, you know, and, and looking at history and seeing how much women had to be working in the kitchen. And they were so shut away from the rest of the family and all of the social aspects, because they were always preparing meals as like a life sentence.

It was like jail or being punished because it was grueling work. Yes. But really, I mean, looking at the American culture, the woman was by herself in the kitchen, where was the village? Where were the grandmothers and the great-grandmothers and the sisters and the people from the village, like coming together.

That's how it used to be, what happened to make us so isolated. I think about that and I think about the burden, it's like, really, it's not a burden It is, it is a vital part of ceremony and a vital part of life and a vital part of health. To make things easier, we have all these processed foods and frozen dinners and TV dinners, like all these things that came into our culture, I think was part of the beginning of separating us from one another and even going out to a restaurant and not really seeing who is serving you, makes me sad. The whole thing of not cooking and it's your right to not cook makes me sad. We bought this huge table, Joey. It's huge; when we got married ,for all of our friends to come together and to have conversations every night with a whole bunch of people, with music, with art, everything discussions about politics, about life.

And we haven't had that in years, you know, and we're still keeping the faith, like keeping the table, like it will come one day and it starting with us, Joey, we're doing it through zoom. I mean, who would have thought, look, you're at our table. Mind you, this table is a toddler table. But we're doing it.

And we're starting and our friends, listening to us, get it. We're getting it. Yup.

[01:31:03] Joey: Yup. You're here with me in my new kitchen. I love

[01:31:07] Fawn: your kitchen. You got

[01:31:08] Joey: gutted and rebuilt by myself. So it's also a very personal, it's also a very personal experience for me. You know, I've never done anything like this before.

And. Can't don't really have people over to exist in this space, this personal food making space that, Loralai and I, my partner and I created together.

[01:31:31] Fawn: It is

beautiful. Did you have experience with carpentry? Cause I mean, it looks so modern and gorgeous

[01:31:38] Joey: and everything on the fly

[01:31:41] Fawn: that's that is crazy.

But see that's what I'm talking about. That's innate, that's, that's the latent knowledge that comes about when you pick up a tool or you pick up a spice, look at what Joey did. Right.

[01:31:56] Matt: And he was definitely showing it off folks. He was showing off the what do you call that? The oven


[01:32:01] Joey: Yup. Vent hood through, put that up there.

[01:32:07] Fawn: Matt and I, it took us two and a half hours to hang a mirror. When we first bought our house. It was not that heavy, but after two and a half hours, we still didn't do it. Right. And we were scared to Joey. Cause we had just bought this house. This is the house we lost by the way. Nice. But nice open show. Oh my God, Joey.

That is my style. Oh my God.

Joey, those shelves. I love, I love things being out in the open.

[01:32:36] Joey: Yeah. Yeah. It's really nice.

[01:32:39] Fawn: We like to show off our spices.

[01:32:42] Joey: Yeah.

Here's my I'd love for them to be out in the open, but that's the spice in there. Then there on the bottom is my little, uh, you can't point on zoom, but anyway, I

[01:32:52] Fawn: got it. I see it.

[01:32:54] Joey: It's nice. It's a nice space, but it's, you know, now a very personal, my blood, sweat, and literal tears went into this space. So it's nice to have people in it and experiencing all of this together.

[01:33:07] Fawn: It's gorgeous.

[01:33:08] Joey: I just want the spices that you have Fawn in the amount and all of that space to have it and space to show it off. And you

[01:33:19] Fawn: know, when you go to the actual mom and pop stores that are of that culture, you don't buy spices in one ounce containers.

They give you like a pound in a bag. Yeah. So that's how you get these spices. You go to the actual cultural store and you just get them. And then you go to like a grocery store and you get those big Mason jars and you fill them up and you create a wall, an apothecary if you will, of these gorgeous ingredients.

I think it's about 30 minutes that that dough has been resting, put it in the fridge for four hours. And then let's just talk about what we're going to do when it comes out of the fridge. I'm going to turn it into a ball, into a disc, roll it out

[01:34:06] Joey: You make a 12 inch diameter, right?

[01:34:09] Fawn: Make sure there are no cracks; a perfect round circle without any cracks. Kind of like when you're making pie dough, the one that you're going to put on top of the pie, then you're going to take the filling that we made, put it in the middle. So that will take up five to six inches and then you take the dough and you fold it over and have the circle, the outer circle meet in the center. So you can pinch the dope closed with the filling inside. Does that make sense, Matt?

[01:34:39] Matt: What I'm saying? You wouldn't be able to see the filling when you put it in the

[01:34:42] Fawn: oven.

So you want to create like

[01:34:46] Joey: a dumpling.

[01:34:47] Fawn: Yeah. Yeah. And then, you're flouring, both sides and you take the pinched side and you put that on the bottom and then you roll it out,

[01:34:59] Matt: even bigger than 12

[01:35:00] Fawn: inches. No, it's not 12 inches anymore because you closed it, you closed it up and you just, you don't do it enough to get to the filling.

So roll it gently to just make it, make it more uniform. And you also seal up the bottom and then that's when you pinch the sides, make your own design stamp it. And then we're going to take the egg mixture that we had. So in our case, so you'd take one egg for brushing and you brush it. For us vegans, what we're going to do is take three tablespoons of aquafaba, mix a little bit of saffron water just a little bit, and you take like a few strands of saffron, crush it up in the Palm of your hands and put it into warm water.

Let that sit. And so pour a little bit of that into the egg wash. I would add just a few drops of rose water to that, and just a little tiny bit of, um, why do I always blank out on it? Every time I say saffron, I always forget tumeric just a little bit for extra golden color. Whisk that up together

and with a pastry brush brush the top of this bread, and then start designing. If you have stamps, you want to put on, gently put the stamps on. Sometimes we take a paring knife and we make designs with it. And don't forget to poke the holes in it, with a toothpick or

[01:36:26] Joey: something, draw on the top of it with the toothpick and then poke the holes in it.

I think I'll do the, uh, saffron water mixed in with the egg wash as well.


[01:36:39] Fawn: And a little bit of the rosewater, or if you don't have rose water yet just to take a, like a sprinkle of cardamom even, right. And then just brush it on. Four hours in the fridge

[01:36:51] Joey: and then, and then we'll be back.

How long do we bake it for. 30 minutes. I think, you know, it's different. It's different up here. It's going to be, it's different, lower temperature for longer here at 7,200 feet above the ocean. So that's the way I'll do it. So it'll take a little bit longer for me. I will say the phone is you're reading through this and we're going through it.

I am finding that the pictures on, Janjigian's recipe on serious eats do a lot of service. So anyone listening who wants to make this, even if you're doing the vegan version or some other version, go look at the Serious Eats recipe for GATA because he has step-by-step pictures on what Fawn was describing as far as rolling the dough out and then folding it all up into its dumpling, like container there's like nine pictures showing that process.

So very helpful for me. Right.

[01:37:51] Fawn: Totally. And the pictures are really pretty. We're going to stick it in the fridge, take it out. We're going to bake it. And again, at word high-altitude also, but about 2000 feet lower than Joey, where at what? 6,000 feet close to a mile up. So put it in the oven.

I always, you know, much like I don't like measuring. I also don't like precise timing with the oven because every oven is different. So I use my my sense skills. When I start smelling it, yes, it's like, it talks to you. It says, okay, I'm about ready. So when you start smelling it in the house or in the kitchen, you're like, okay, that's it talking to you?

So you'd go to it. You take a look at it, don't open the oven, but just like, take a look at it. You can sense it, let it tell you what it needs.

[01:38:41] Matt: Right. But with that said, I always set a timer just in case it gets forgotten because sometimes the kitchen gets chaotic.

.And it's, it's good to be reminded.

Oh yeah, that's .Right, I have a blah, blah, blah, blah. In the oven. And it could be in a dire state.

[01:38:57] Fawn: So, until evenly golden brown, 20 to 35 minutes rotating baking sheet after 20 minutes. And then once you take it out, let it cool on a wire rack, and then we'll get back and have a discussion on how it all tastes.

So we'll see you probably in a few seconds, but we're going to take the four, four and a half hours and come back.

[01:39:22] Matt: I did have one question though. So the egg quote-unquote egg wash over the top. Does that make it glossy? Does that make it not crunchy? What w I think it's ended up ending up doing two or three things. So what are those two or three things you think it'll end up doing? Oh,

[01:39:39] Fawn: I'll go first, Joey.

And then I'll ask you what you think, Joey, but I think it adds this beautiful golden sheen and almost like a layer. It almost looks like it's glazed. What do you think, Joey?

[01:39:51] Joey: Yeah, I think that's pretty much, it, it adds this beautiful shine to it. Just looks really great. I'm not sure what anything else.


[01:40:00] Matt: Yeah, no, I was just curious. I was wondering if it's going to like, keep it from getting cracked. Uh, traditional baguette is crunchy on the top and bottom. This may only be crunchy on the, I have no idea. We go and find out

[01:40:13] Joey: coffee cake, right? Like a Armenian coffee cake, I think is the best way to that's

[01:40:18] Fawn: what Andrew describes it as.

But like, honestly it is the oldest, oldest ceremonial bread in the world. It's the major dessert served at the most important celebrations often called the Jewel of the feast table or the queen of the Armenian desserts.

And then those stamps, we talked about the stamps and the sacredness, the meaning behind the stamps and who it's for, like initiation and ceremony and welcoming each other. So we welcome. You always thank you for this beautiful friendship.

The circle is widening and growing every day. Thank you for being with us and thank you for being so patient as this podcast episode is now two hours and more than two hours

I love it. I pause it. I come back. I love it. I want to be a part of the crew. I want to be a part of the table. I want to be a part of the friendship. And this is what I'm building here. This is what we're all building here is the family. This is the village we're looking for. You know, like when we had kids, people are like, oh, the village.

Um, raise the child. It takes a village. Well, BS, because I'm like, where is everybody? We literally had nobody, nobody, it was just us now it's four. And now it's growing with our podcast and all of our friends, but seriously, like we didn't even have anyone, no one ever babysat for us. The only time that actually happened was for an hour and a half when I was in surgery, kind of giving birth till Alegra and then Matt left and picked Allegra Elle up again.

But like, and the only other time anyone watched our kids was when we went through a major trauma, Matt was in the hospital and I had to be an ICU with him, not how to, but I was, you know, that's, I'm right by your side, babe. But we had to leave the kids with people like that was the only time and they were strangers and whatever.

That's an, a whole other story. But, um, anyways, it, but this is how we grow our

[01:42:37] Matt: village. We pause this. Then the sooner everybody gets to hear me.

[01:42:45] Fawn: All right, guys, love you. We'll talk to you in a few seconds. Indeed. All right. Take care.

Making, Baking, and Breaking Bread part 2 Transcript

[00:00:00] Fawn: Okay. We are back. Everything is out of the oven are our Gatas. I keep wanting to say gateaux, which is cake in French. Ours are out Joey's

is out

[00:00:15] Joey: what has been mere seconds for the listener has been ages for us

[00:00:21] Fawn: over five hours. Yeah,

[00:00:22] Matt: well, it was in the refrigerator. Then it got pulled out. Then it got shaped with the filling inside and flipped and rolled out and

[00:00:31] Fawn: washed with egg wash and

[00:00:32] Matt: everything.

And then oven and timed. And

[00:00:36] Fawn: I'll say this, when we put it in the oven, we were all excited. We were sending each other photos, texting photos, but ours cracked and it's, it's like the Gata I remember. When I was a kid, you can like flip it around and go, here you go. Like catch it like a Frisbee almost. And this one, no, I think I put too much filling in ours of

[00:01:01] Matt: she put too much filling and dates.

So it's completely different.

[00:01:04] Fawn: Excuse me. That is the feeling. Oh, I see. Because dates no

[00:01:09] Joey: dates. So I did notice yours was the picture of your filling was much more. It looks like the handle of a, of a paste kind of consistency that mine was. And I didn't use dates. I ended up not putting dates in

[00:01:28] Fawn: like Andrews, like what was just crumbly.

[00:01:31] Joey: It was crumbly. Yeah.

[00:01:33] Fawn: Ah, okay guys. So how does yours look,

[00:01:36] Joey: Joey? Um, should I take pictures and send them to you? And then we could post.

[00:01:42] Fawn: What does that, is that the oven?

[00:01:45] Joey: Yeah. And then we could post pictures with the episode. Okay.

What do I take a good picture. I'm not a good food pictures. And now

[00:01:54] Fawn: it's nighttime. So the lighting is weird.

[00:01:57] Joey: Yeah. Okay. I'm sending you a pic. But I think it came out pretty well. There's a couple of cracks in it. It certainly doesn't look like that picture you sent with the article that you sent, which is yeah.

They're they seem much broader and much more sturdy.

[00:02:14] Fawn: Yeah, totally. Exactly. So let me say, I'm getting your picture right now. Oh, Joey, it looks great. You look so good. It's

[00:02:26] Joey: intact. There's one big crack on the side, but that's, that's pretty much it. Yours

[00:02:33] Fawn: looks. Like perfection. Perfect. Yeah.

[00:02:38] Joey: We've got a crack here.

[00:02:39] Matt: I want to cry half. We've got a two inch crack here. We've got a name. We've got a half a quarter inch crack

[00:02:45] Fawn: here. Okay, buddy. There's one there on the side, but I just, I want to cry right now. I

[00:02:52] Joey: want to come perfection. Perfect. Wabi-sabi post we'll post pictures and all the listeners to see our beautiful work.

I don't

[00:03:00] Fawn: want to post my pictures.

[00:03:01] Joey: She doesn't want to posters she'll post

[00:03:04] Matt: the before,

[00:03:04] Joey: but not the after. Wait, find Google, like pick an image from Google that we post with it, but make sure it has like some random watermark on the image. Wait, so people could be like this isn't.

[00:03:18] Fawn: I'll show mine it's cracked.

Oh, well. Oh well, but can I read you guys while we were waiting for the goddess to cool. I found this article from sbs.com. Dot a U slash food slash wait slash I, I can't read the rest of it, but, um, it's sbs.com.au/food. So it's an article from Australia and, from December 13th 2019, written by Yasmin Noone. And it's funny because in Farsi, Noone means bread. So here she is talking about this bread that we just made. It's really interesting. But she goes to say that although gata is famous throughout Armenia for its links to Liberty and freedom, the sweet bread is a rare delicacy in Australia.

Here's how to track down a taste of good luck and a bread loaf, according to one local cook. And so it says bread is meant to be one of the, one of life's most simple edible treasures. But when you learn the history about gata, an Armenian bread like treat that's worth hunting down, even if it's just a taste once in your lifetime, you'll realize that culinary simplicity can be shrouded in beautifully complex roots.

So this area that they're in is called Geghard Australia, and there's also a Geghard in Armenia. Okay. I'll read this part of the article. It says "the sweet bread of Geghard Monastery. The sweet bread of Geghard Monastery. The most famous version of gata is a round bread loaf, marked with decorative motifs or the word Geghard an edible. Representation of the Armenian village of the same name situated in the midst of Armenia's upper Azat Valley you'll find gada being sold near a grand sculpture emitting natural beauty, the monastery of Geghard. According to UNESCO, the Christian Church, surrounded by cliffs and defensive walls was first carved into living rock around the start of the fourth century,AD. "

So it talks about the walkways in the church, outside the church where women would have stalls and they would sell the gata to visitors.

Check this out. It says, " Sweet freedom, lucky bread." gata is also known for good luck. It says: "as history dictates gata's origins are closely linked to the creation of the monastery founded by Saint Gregory the Illuminator. The church was built after Christianity was first adopted as a state religion. No one knows how, but it soon became a tradition for vendors to sell gata outside the monastery."

Iskikian is the caterer that she's talking about and Iskikian’s. Please forgive me. I'm pronouncing her name. So "Iskikian however, tells a modified version of the same story as told to her by a school teacher in her youth."

She says: "the church was carved inside the rock because at the time Christians were being persecuted, the church became a secret place for the Christians to pray. From the outside, you couldn't even tell it was a church. She explains that the concept of bread and Christianity is linked to the last supper. Hence it's popularity as a food by the early Christians in Geghard. Years past, and Christianity later became recognized as a state religion of Armenia. As people started practicing Christianity more freely in Gegard, they started adding sweetness inside the bread. From then on, the bread was consumed, known as gata became associated with the sweetness of Liberty and freedom."

It goes on to say, "Gata's baked during the wedding and later broken over the head of the couple as a blessing of good luck."

The bread we made today, like over here, like the one I did. It'll break before we reach anyone's head. Like if I pick it up, it'll just crumble.

It's so flaky.

[00:08:13] Matt: Well now hold on. We don't know underneath how thick or thin it

[00:08:16] Fawn: is. No, I moved it, so I know. So given gata's sweet affiliation, it's also used in Armenia as a symbol of good luck at weddings. The dish is often offered to friends and family before they travel.

You take gada to their house to wish them a safe journey. Although gata is eaten all year round, it's also traditional to consume it during the Christian holiday of Candlemass, occurring 40 days after Christmas on the Armenian calendar.

Hmm. Um, so interesting. Like the more I read about this simple, beautiful dessert, the more I'm finding, like the more stories that come up.

[00:08:59] Joey: Yeah. It like, if you go, we were talking about going down to Denver and going to that Armenian bakery. If I, I wish I could remember the name and I don't want to lose my train of thought, so I'm not going to Google, but anyway, if you go into a bakery and you're like, I'll have a piece of that, you're just most of the time for most people, you're just buying a piece of that. Right. But there's so much, like it's so much more than bread it's or it's so much more than anything, you know what I mean? There's just so much to everything and with something like gata and what you're reading and the history that I know, because I've been researching my history and my, introduction to identity with Armenia, I mean, it's just so meaningful. So again, it's just about being conscious of the food.

[00:09:53] Fawn: Yeah. Joey, what you said was so beautiful and it's, it's about being conscious of what it is. Well, what's before us and it goes with people too. There's so much more to it. History. There's so much more to it than what we read. You know, we talked about this last time because history is written by the ones that take over everything by the victors.

[00:10:20] Joey: Yeah. And I think, again, personally, for me, and having done this research and understanding what happened, two thirds of the population was gone and there were only two two and a half million Armenians on earth at that point to begin with. So two thirds of the population is a lot of the population, so I'm very lucky that my great grandparents made it out of there. And I'm very lucky that I'm here because I could just have easily not been here. And we could all just as easily, not be able to have this bread because most of the people were killed.

There's just so much consciousness to put into all of this. And again, like, I don't want there to be a burden with all this understanding and knowledge. It adds to the importance of food and the legacy, I guess. That's it right? The legacy of the food.

[00:11:17] Fawn: So true, Joey, I just want to say how I feel so blessed by you. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing your great grandfather and your great grandmother with us. And thank you for sharing this whole journey. I, I truly feel as soon as I first saw you that you were family to me, and of course, to Matt and Alegra and to Elle.

Thank you. Thank you for this whole experience. And I'm so excited to learn more.

[00:11:50] Joey: Yeah, thank you both for talking to me about this, having me on your podcast and even off the podcast and talking about this and, you know, I love talking about this. And again, it's something that a lot of people know about, but I just, when I get passionate about this stuff, that's probably true for anybody, right.

Like when I get passionate about stuff, I just like, want to talk about it, like, oh, the Armenian genocide. Oh gata oh, this food. Oh, you know where this came from? Oh, Star Wars, you know, it's all there. It's all just like loving talking about what I am passionate about and becoming more passionate about my identity within this culture


[00:12:30] Fawn: you are such a beautiful human being. Joey, we were just looking at your house today that you've been building. So it's been over a year. How long have you been redoing your house? Yeah,

[00:12:42] Joey: we moved here in August 20, 20 peak peak COVID at that point, you know, we moved from New York. We were living right outside of New York.

And Lorelai got a job. My partner got a job here at the university of Wyoming. So we moved out here and bought this house that we affectionately call the trash house and listeners trash house Laramie on Instagram. Um, yeah. And have just been going ho I got laid off in June of 2020 because of COVID right.

And so we moved out here. I. Was and am pretty much unemployed and I've just been dedicating my full-time to this.

[00:13:24] Fawn: Well, I was going to say that you're a such a beautiful human being and it's your actions. It's the way you walk on the planet. It's the way that you listen to people. It's the way that you gather details and share them so beautifully, Joey. You are such an amazing host in the world. Like we always talk about, you always need to be a good host, Matt. Joey is that. Joey you're phenomenal. And the reason why I brought up your house was the care that you've taken to redo this house. You showed us today that you've done with this house.

I mean, honestly, I would have said forget it. I mean, but the care, the care and the passion and the love that you've taken for every little detail, that is totally who you are as a human being; to care so much and to make the world better, to make this house better, to make understanding everything better.

You are really talented, my friend.

[00:14:36] Joey: Well, thank you so much. And I love that. And that's really great to hear, and I really appreciate it. you know, like I said earlier that I don't thank you so much Fawn. That's so that's just a lovely, that's just also lovely. So I don't want to move away from that too quickly. But I was saying earlier, like, It's not until people say something to me sometimes that I'm like, oh no.

Yeah. That makes total sense. And especially about myself. So now as we're talking and I just did that whole like monologue about the legacy of food and culture I have and had, and have very similar feelings about this house that I'm now putting together as we're talking like this house was built in 1938 and you know, how many people...

I've had two contractors. I've done all this work myself. Two contractors have come in here to do work. Each one of them said, oh, we looked at this house and immediately said, no, thank you. So this house was neglected. People turned it down. It was built in 1938. It's seen some stuff like it's lived through a lot and I just wanted to take care of it,

build it back up to not exactly what it was, but I think a pretty good representation of a house with a legacy. You know, this house has a legacy. It's, it's just like an incredible how long it's been here through the stuff that this world has gone through. It's just incredible. And, it's a lot of the same sentiments as to why I have really loved

starting the new podcasters association, helping people on their journeys, helping. I love podcasting. I'm also very passionate about that and love talking about that and love helping people start their podcast and like getting moving forward on their journey about the stuff that they're passionate about.

[00:16:31] Fawn: You know, when we, when we're amongst friends, you can see each other's paths much more clearly. Like I can see how everything in your life, Joey is beautifully intertwined. I can see how geology works into this, like the first episode we did with you, we were talking about the rock and how little kids will come and move it.

And that rock has been there for many centuries and now it gets right. Like it's seen everything and it's literally like everything, to give honor to that, to realize how special that is instead of just ignoring it or kicking it. That is beautiful. And that is part of your beauty, my friend.

You are an amazing human.

[00:17:19] Joey: Thank you so much.

[00:17:20] Fawn: Before we close off this show, this is the longest podcast we've ever done.

[00:17:25] Matt: When I keep staring at

[00:17:26] Joey: the.

[00:17:29] Fawn: Matt, but don't eat it without the kids. I want the kids to come in, but before they come in to, before we slice into it, so earlier today, I told you what I think breaking bread means to me.

I think breaking bread , it's about breaking the resist and the not knowing of our stories because when we get together and we share a piece of bread, a meal, it breaks that resistance of not knowing; not knowing each other, not knowing our stories, not knowing history, not knowing, not knowing what it's like to hear the music that comes out of people's mouths as they talk and as we share each other's stories.

[00:18:12] Matt: It's like most things. It's a, almost a deeper form of communication because what you're expressing to someone when you present them with bread or food in general is, you're presenting a part of yourself and it's not necessarily, it's, it's, it's kind of an unguarded piece of yourself. I mean, you've spent this time, particularly when you look at a loaf of bread or a cake, you have no idea what's really going on inside.

Right. So when you present like a fresh loaf, It's like, well, is it good? Is there too much of this? Is there too little of that? So, the act of presenting it to someone implies that you have faith and trust and that they're going to enjoy it and they're not going to judge you based upon it on some level.

[00:18:57] Joey: Very it's a, you know, it's, it's also, is it seemingly very meta what you're saying, Matt, like, it's this. Insecurities I put on myself when in a new situation with a new person, you know what I mean? Like, is there too much of this or not enough of this and the bread, but in my like a little too much, is there too much Star Wars, but talking about, you know, that kind of

[00:19:17] Matt: well, and, and that's just it.

And then on the other side of the coin, when you're presented with the bread, it's like, you have no idea what it's going to taste like or what it's going to be like. And this, this person is presenting it to you for your enjoyment. There's such a it's, it's almost like, again, there's a responsibility to it because there, you know, here you go.

And it's going to be a different experience and particularly with this bread, even though, you know, Make it in two separate states. I honestly, I have no idea. It's like how much rise will there be on it? How crunchy or not crunchy will it be et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's it's yeah.

It's, it's, it's kind of exciting. Did you want to

[00:19:57] Fawn: say something about contracts?

[00:19:58] Matt: I did, but in the Babylonian world, so we talk about breaking contracts, right? And I think about it as far as, as bread goes, because in ancient Babylonian times, breaking of the actual contract itself was probably put on a reed tablet or a clay tablet and put inside of a shell. And the breaking of a contract was actually, so you could examine the actual contract inside, which is a very different meaning than we give to breaking a contract.

[00:20:29] Joey: Yeah.

[00:20:30] Matt: You know, obviously breaking a contract means, oh, I'm not gonna do that anymore.

[00:20:33] Joey: But, uh, uh, there's the opposite. There's a

[00:20:36] Matt: similarity because with this bread, there's a filling inside that, we have some hints about, but what's it really going to be like?

[00:20:43] Fawn: Oh my God, that's like exploring each other and each other's stories cause you're breaking it open and seeing what's in there.

So how about you, Joey? What is breaking bread?

[00:20:54] Joey: Yeah. You know, I think if you had asked me a couple of years ago, I'd have a very different answer.

[00:20:59] Fawn: What would your answer be back then?

[00:21:00] Joey: But my answer back then would probably be maybe a little more closed minded, right? Like I was just talking about, you go into a bakery and you just order a thing or you order a loaf of bread.

And now, the understanding of what it all means; bread, food, like I'm interpreting breaking bread as both like very literal of with bread, but also having people in your life, sitting down, eating food, having a community experience with food and, Gone through this pandemic and isolated from people, and there's this huge, like we're doing this remotely, we're breaking this bread remotely. And I think remotely and in person, it's a very personal thing. Like Matt was saying, I put all of my effort into this one specific thing, but it's also like something you're sharing with friends, right? You're making this commitment to share this with friends, new friends, old friends, whatever. So it's a very familial friendship bond thing that we're all doing that. Is, I guess, part of my thesis about there are whole part two conversation here about like the consciousness of it all sitting down with people, friendship, family food, breaking bread

[00:22:20] Fawn: right

[00:22:21] Matt: now.

Come on.

[00:22:21] Fawn: Let's eat.

Okay. Let me get the girls. You want to get the girls? Oh, just, yeah. Just tell him,

Joey, I'm afraid to cut into it. It's just going to fall apart.

[00:22:37] Joey: I think it's going to be great.

[00:22:39] Fawn: I'm going to wait for them to come and then I'll slice it. Have you sliced yours yet?

[00:22:43] Joey: I have not sliced mine yet. Is

[00:22:44] Fawn: Lorelei coming?

[00:22:46] Joey: I texted her to

[00:22:47] Fawn: see. Okay, so right. The girls are here.

[00:22:54] Matt: The camp though, get too many cables.

[00:22:56] Fawn: Don't like, sit there if you want. Are you okay there? All right.

[00:23:03] Matt: Yeah. Except you have to have a power cable. So

[00:23:07] Fawn: I just want to say again, a great thank you. Before we slice into this bread, before we break the bread, I am so grateful to all of you listening. As we have like a 15, 16, 20 hour podcast this time, and also all the times.

Thank you everyone for being part of our friendship circle. Thank you to Joey, Joey Krikorian. You are amazing. We love you. And I am so blessed. I mean, look at us. This is amazing.

[00:23:39] Joey: Thank you. Fawn and Matt for having me and for letting me tell my story as it stands now and for making this bread with me.

[00:23:46] Matt: It's like, I almost want to say a blessing over the bread.

[00:23:49] Fawn: Yeah, this is the blessing. That was my prayer.

[00:23:53] Matt: No, nevermind. What's in bread. Yeah. Oh, I was, I was going to say, do you want me to say a blessing over the bread, but then it was going to be corny. Oh, actually it was going to be worse than corny. It was going to be an attempt at being funny blasphemous.

Exactly. But here we go.

[00:24:10] Fawn: Hi,

[00:24:12] Joey: thanks for the

[00:24:12] Matt: grub. Yay

[00:24:13] Fawn: God. Okay, well, thank you. Here we go. Thank you friends. Here we go. We're slicing into it. Oh

[00:24:19] Joey: my goodness. This is

[00:24:20] Fawn: incredible. You know what it hardened. This is, it looks at crunch here. Can you hear I'll put here. I can just hold the microphone. We're going to slice it here.

I can just hold the microphone. Nope.

[00:24:42] Matt: You're okay. Don't worry.

[00:24:50] Fawn: Well done. We broke the bread.

[00:24:52] Matt: There's parchment paper underneath, but the crunch is the

[00:24:55] Fawn: crunch. Ah, Joey is showing us his that's a nice rise on that is picture perfect. That looks like Andrew's

[00:25:03] Joey: it? Uh, it's a little uncentered, the filling, but. This is what it is. I

[00:25:10] Fawn: am scared. Oh, look, ours kind of looks the same too.

[00:25:15] Joey: Yeah.

[00:25:17] Fawn: So we did a vegan version and Joey did Andrew's recipe. This slice. I'm going to give him some more. Thank you. I'll take the little one. Okay. Everybody. One more so excited. Oh wait. Okay. Okay. Everyone, everyone bite,

take a bite, take a bite right there. Oh, it is. Okay. Here we go. Everybody. I have to sniff it first.

[00:26:05] Joey: Yeah, that's pretty dang good. Wow. Very sweet.

[00:26:14] Fawn: . What do you think is really good?


[00:26:20] Joey: you sure? This is like not too sweet and salty. Oh

[00:26:24] Fawn: my God. Yeah. It's salty. Right? We didn't put that much salt. It was really good. I can see why Andrew called it a coffee cake.

[00:26:34] Joey: Yeah, I'm a big fan. So between what I've just eaten and the smell that filled the house, when baking, it will definitely be making this again. I

[00:26:44] Fawn: can't wait. I want to break it over. Someone's head. You know what? I can't wait to do this in person. All of us. This was so much fun. I can't believe it. You know what? I'm not depressed anymore.

Now that I taste it and I see the inside, it looks pretty great,

[00:27:02] Joey: very healing bread.

[00:27:05] Fawn: And now we shall have good luck. Today is our day. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you! Joey, can you tell our friends how they can get ahold of you? What you would like them to know?

[00:27:21] Joey: Yeah. Anyone listening can reach out to me.

I am at Krypton Alderaan K R Y P T O N a L D E R a N on Twitter on any social media really, or Kryptontoalderaan@gmail.com. You can shoot me an email again, to reiterate. I'd love to hear from anybody who wants to talk about this conversation? Anybody who wants to talk about Armenian culture, anybody who's read "A Hundred Year Walk" and wants to talk about that.

If you like Star Wars, check out my podcast, Krypton to Alderaan. I'd also love to talk to anybody about that. So I think those are all the things.

[00:28:01] Fawn: You don't just talk about star wars. You get in deep

[00:28:04] Joey: talk about a lot of stuff. I try to. Relate star wars back. I try to hold pop culture responsible for a lot of stuff.

And I try to talk to people about stuff that matters to them. I interviewed one of our other podcast, friends, Jolene Jang a while ago about stop Asian hate and Asian anti-Asian racism and pop culture. So we have a fun time talking about star Wars. We also do go a little deep.

[00:28:30] Fawn: You sure do. It's a great podcast.

Everyone check him out. And let us know your stories. if you want to contribute to our show, please, go to our website, our friendly world podcast.com and let us know anything you want. Just please keep in touch. I am so grateful for everyone listening. Thank you again.

And we'll talk to you in just a little bit. All right, everybody take care.